Twenty states do not require it, and some that do are looking to save some $ by dropping the front all together. It is a function of car identification and by having plates on front and rear make the car easier to identify by police and other law enforcement.
Why do some places require front plates on our cars?
Hey! I hope that this isn't too far off topic, but after struggling to keep a front plate holder on one of my 1982 280ZX's (and having little problem on the other), I started to wonder WHY some communities (or is it states?) require that you have a front plate if the state in which you reside only requires a rear one? Here in Delaware we only need a rear plate, but while researching a "Z car drive" going thru New Jersey I was told by members that I was required by local law enforcements along the route to have a front plate.
The only thing I could think of is so they (the police) would be able to use their laser speed enforcement programs (I read that they focus their sites on the front plate of an approaching car). There's gotta be more to it than this... anyone?
The only thing I could think of is so they (the police) would be able to use their laser speed enforcement programs (I read that they focus their sites on the front plate of an approaching car). There's gotta be more to it than this... anyone?
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Any car or truck in Minnesota that is over 20 years old does not require a front plate.
horse hockey. Lasers will hit your headlight. In TX, for instance, they believe someone will read your plate just before you run them over. Others think it is easier to write parking tickets. If you drive thru NY with DL plates which only require rears, there is nothing NJ cops can do.
So the cops can stop you and at a minimum, collect $230 for the local community. It also lets them stop you and see if you a warrant, drugs, etc. in the car. All in the name of community safety. Grrrrrrr.Jlensbo said:WHY some communities (or is it states?) require that you have a front plate
No local enforcement of a plate ordinance can superscede a state law. If you are in Michigan, and a resident, and have no plate on the car...and NJ tags you for 'no front plate' you plead 'not guilty' send the magistrate a nie 'go pound sand up your arse' letter, and forget about it. There is no requirement for you to comply with a state to state law change if you are simply driving through.
Arizona allows tint on the side windows from what I understand, CA does not. CHP doesn't even bother writing tickets for tint on an AZ-Plated Vehicle.
The ONLY way a ticket can be validly issued (and likely this was the case in the online bleat you read) was the guy had an NJ Registered Vehicle, and didn't have his front plate on the car. That is a valid ticket if NJ requires you to run a front plate.
End of story. A neighborhood can't make you put one on if the state doesn't require it, that's just bullshite.
Arizona allows tint on the side windows from what I understand, CA does not. CHP doesn't even bother writing tickets for tint on an AZ-Plated Vehicle.
The ONLY way a ticket can be validly issued (and likely this was the case in the online bleat you read) was the guy had an NJ Registered Vehicle, and didn't have his front plate on the car. That is a valid ticket if NJ requires you to run a front plate.
End of story. A neighborhood can't make you put one on if the state doesn't require it, that's just bullshite.
I thought it was that some places wanted to scan all plates if you parked frontwards or backwards. I bet you can get better ID's off all the cameras around us with double exposure. I remember Black gragon sold that plate protector that would hide your plate from angles but not straight on. Wish I had one!
Ok, I have no idea what the State of Texas public policy is behind plates on the front. And the OP dealt with plates on "pass through" cars. I've never been stopped going through another state, but I've been stopped more than once in my home town in Texas for not having front plate installed. Why the State wants front plates? I assume it makes it easier to run plates, ID a car, etc. I think it's garbage, but it's not like I haven't been warned (and received a few tickets).
But, if my state does not require front plates, and I go through a state that does and I get a ticket, it is not as easy as sending a "pound sand" letter to local court. That might work (not a pound sand letter, but the local statute dealing with plates) or might not. Under the "full faith and credit" clause if one appears, contests, etc., at some point you are going to prevail, but at what cost? What will not work is ignoring the ticket, because if you don't appear, you lose the right to contest the violation. At that point it is no longer about not having a plate installed, it's about the failure to appear, etc.
But, if my state does not require front plates, and I go through a state that does and I get a ticket, it is not as easy as sending a "pound sand" letter to local court. That might work (not a pound sand letter, but the local statute dealing with plates) or might not. Under the "full faith and credit" clause if one appears, contests, etc., at some point you are going to prevail, but at what cost? What will not work is ignoring the ticket, because if you don't appear, you lose the right to contest the violation. At that point it is no longer about not having a plate installed, it's about the failure to appear, etc.
Tony is correct about tint.In Az.you can have limo tint on all windows except passenger & driver door.No cop can write you for a non-moving violation on a vehicle registered in another state.
The front plate thing came about before there was ANY type of police radar.The front tag was required because cops wanted to be able to get a marker number from a vehicle in the "opposing" direction.
JGW006-let me re-phrase:A cop can write you for anything he wants.However,writing a car from another state a ticket for a NON-MOVING violation is NOT a valid ticket.
The front plate thing came about before there was ANY type of police radar.The front tag was required because cops wanted to be able to get a marker number from a vehicle in the "opposing" direction.
JGW006-let me re-phrase:A cop can write you for anything he wants.However,writing a car from another state a ticket for a NON-MOVING violation is NOT a valid ticket.
Ok, my point is, valid ticket or not (and "valid" is a matter either of the state law writing the ticket or federal law, in the event there is statutory or common law on the issue), once the ticket is written, the recipient still has a facially valid obligation to pay the ticket or appear. If the ticket isn't paid and he doesn't appear, the ticket will go to warrant. At some point, the recipient is going to get picked up on the warrant. He may be able to "win" at some point. But, the cop picking him up is not going to accept the "that was just a non-moving violation so it's not a valid ticket or valid warrant". the driver is still getting picked up. One thing I've learned in 17 or so years is there is often a difference between the law school exam answer and what's going to happen to the client.Arubabill said:JGW006-let me re-phrase:A cop can write you for anything he wants.However,writing a car from another state a ticket for a NON-MOVING violation is NOT a valid ticket.
I don't know where most of ya'll are from, but I know that there are many counties and towns in Texas in which the local Rosco P. Coltrane would not care a rat's rear end what some other State's Regs are on front plates. He'll write the ticket, and if it's not paid a warrant will issue. Simple as that. At some point the driver is going to get picked up. Then, you're going to pay a bunch to prove that the ticket's invalid. I would never advise a client to ignore a ticket and tell him he has nothing to worry about. Ignore it if you want to, but at some point I would tell him he will have to deal with it some how. Paying the ticket is often cheaper than retaining counsel to fight it.
I'm afraid, JG, that you are correct. But I have a hard time believing some cop would write me a ticket on my TN car b/c I had no front plate. For that matter, TN requires no plate on a trailer and I've towed it thru many.
You're probably right, and for most towns, most cops, most of the time, I'm sure you are right. Probably that would be used as an excuse to stop a car that the cop thought needed stopping for some reason.palladin said:I'm afraid, JG, that you are correct. But I have a hard time believing some cop would write me a ticket on my TN car b/c I had no front plate. For that matter, TN requires no plate on a trailer and I've towed it thru many.
Re: trailers, in Texas we have to register / plate them. Not so in OK. Guess where all trailers stolen from San Antonio to the Red River end up!
tell me something:EXACTLY what part of State vehicle code CAN NOT be enforced on a vehicle registered in another state did you not understand?State vehicle codes DO NOT APPLY to other states.JGW006 said:Ok, my point is, valid ticket or not (and "valid" is a matter either of the state law writing the ticket or federal law, in the event there is statutory or common law on the issue), once the ticket is written, the recipient still has a facially valid obligation to pay the ticket or appear. If the ticket isn't paid and he doesn't appear, the ticket will go to warrant. At some point, the recipient is going to get picked up on the warrant. He may be able to "win" at some point. But, the cop picking him up is not going to accept the "that was just a non-moving violation so it's not a valid ticket or valid warrant". the driver is still getting picked up. One thing I've learned in 17 or so years is there is often a difference between the law school exam answer and what's going to happen to the client.Arubabill said:JGW006-let me re-phrase:A cop can write you for anything he wants.However,writing a car from another state a ticket for a NON-MOVING violation is NOT a valid ticket.
I don't know where most of ya'll are from, but I know that there are many counties and towns in Texas in which the local Rosco P. Coltrane would not care a rat's rear end what some other State's Regs are on front plates. He'll write the ticket, and if it's not paid a warrant will issue. Simple as that. At some point the driver is going to get picked up. Then, you're going to pay a bunch to prove that the ticket's invalid. I would never advise a client to ignore a ticket and tell him he has nothing to worry about. Ignore it if you want to, but at some point I would tell him he will have to deal with it some how. Paying the ticket is often cheaper than retaining counsel to fight it.
tell me something:EXACTLY what part of State vehicle code CAN NOT be enforced on a vehicle registered in another state did you not understand?State vehicle codes DO NOT APPLY to other states.
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There is no sense in debating the various states' approach to Conflict of Laws, researching and performing review and analysis of the 50 states' laws on various vehicle codes (along with such state's case law interpretation of such codes), the results of cases, application of the 50 states and U.S. "full faith and credit clause,", etc. I stopped having to do completely meaningless legal research and writing tasks in 1993.
Saying "they can't do that" is really meaningless. By analogy, it's about as meaningless as saying cops can't arrest and juries can't convict if an alleged perp is "innocent." What is supposed to happen and what can happen are different, and sometimes different enough that it is very expensive to correct a situation. That's my point. Anyway, tint what you want, put your plates where you want, drive where you want; it's no big deal to me.
Btw, you may have a concealed carry license in your state, but carry in some states and you're going to jail. Client of mine has a conviction in NJ (I think NJ, might be another gun unfriendly state in the NE), when what he was doing was legal in his state of residence, he had a CHL, but the state he happened to be in during a routine traffic stop had statutes otherwise. Different than where you put a plate or where you tint? Yes, somewhat. But, states do what states want to do. Sometimes is right, sometimes not, and sometimes it takes lawsuits to force a State, or other governmental agency / jurisdiction into compliance with what is right.
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There is no sense in debating the various states' approach to Conflict of Laws, researching and performing review and analysis of the 50 states' laws on various vehicle codes (along with such state's case law interpretation of such codes), the results of cases, application of the 50 states and U.S. "full faith and credit clause,", etc. I stopped having to do completely meaningless legal research and writing tasks in 1993.
Saying "they can't do that" is really meaningless. By analogy, it's about as meaningless as saying cops can't arrest and juries can't convict if an alleged perp is "innocent." What is supposed to happen and what can happen are different, and sometimes different enough that it is very expensive to correct a situation. That's my point. Anyway, tint what you want, put your plates where you want, drive where you want; it's no big deal to me.
Btw, you may have a concealed carry license in your state, but carry in some states and you're going to jail. Client of mine has a conviction in NJ (I think NJ, might be another gun unfriendly state in the NE), when what he was doing was legal in his state of residence, he had a CHL, but the state he happened to be in during a routine traffic stop had statutes otherwise. Different than where you put a plate or where you tint? Yes, somewhat. But, states do what states want to do. Sometimes is right, sometimes not, and sometimes it takes lawsuits to force a State, or other governmental agency / jurisdiction into compliance with what is right.
You are completely WRONG.ANd the CCW analogy is so far out in left field,i'm not going to even address it.NON-MOVING violations CAN NOT be enforced on a vehicle from another state.Period.End.Stop.
My Az. registered Z does NOT have to comply with Texas DMV code.And vice versa.
My Az. registered Z does NOT have to comply with Texas DMV code.And vice versa.
Arubabill, I give up. You are right. Wholly, totally, completely, without reserve. I give up like the British at New Orleans, like the French in (wow, too many times to count), like the Bills in 3 different Super Bowls (or was it 4?). It was the use of the all caps key that did it. I wasn't sure until I got to the all caps, then I realized the flaws of my logic, the errors of my elucidation, and the inherent brilliance found in the eloquence of Mssr. Arubabill's reasoning, analysis and argument. Yep, it was the all caps.
To the rest of ya'll, is it common on this Board to react without thought? To read into a post that which is not there? To confuse "something can happen even if it shouldn't and if it does it may be expensive to fix" with "huh uh, can't happen because it can't happen because it can't"?
To the rest of ya'll, is it common on this Board to react without thought? To read into a post that which is not there? To confuse "something can happen even if it shouldn't and if it does it may be expensive to fix" with "huh uh, can't happen because it can't happen because it can't"?
It's interesting though. Where I live (CA) front plates are required, yet I know that the cops in my local community are cool when driving classic cars. I have driven my last three classic cars without a front plate for the past 15 years and have never been stopped.
"That might work (not a pound sand letter, but the local statute dealing with plates) or might not. Under the "full faith and credit" clause if one appears, contests, etc., at some point you are going to prevail, but at what cost? "
The cost of the time it takes to respond to the citation and a first class stamp and registered mail. You are talking out your arse if you think a ticket for no front plate will fly on an out-of-state resident driving an out-of-state car. I DO NOT have to comply with OUT OF STATE regulations, I have to comply with MY STATE OF RESIDENCE regulations...
I travel the world, and posess an FIA issued international driver's license. I get a ticket in Morocco (ha!) it follows me on the FIA documentation, but not reciprocally to California. California gets upset I have maintained a Michigan License. I have a residence, and conduct business there, and am therefore entitled to have this. While I'm in Michigan. I can't use it in California as I also have a residence and conduct business there as well, and therefore have a California License.
Arubabill has it 100% absolutely correct, this is just another case of some Texas Arsehole being obstinate with his ignorance. Ticket me for no front plate Tex, and I'll handle it like every other state that is STUPID enough to write a ticket that is not enforceable: "Go Pound Sand" letter, Registered Mail, File the dismissal letter for future reference WHEN it arrives (and it ALWAYS does!)
"Appearing By Proxy" is simple. Just because you live in a backwards-ares part of the country doesn't mean the rest of us will tolerate your stupid good old boy local shennanigans. Worse comes to worst: Shoot the Trooper in the Face and drive on. Texas Law: "He needed killin'!" Simple as that.
And one other thing: Get written for 92 in a 55 outside Eagle Pass. Don't appear. Get a warrant issued.
GOT NEWS JWG: Nobody is going to extradite, nobody is going to enforce the warrant outside your little incestuous cauldron of discontent. GO POUND SAND! It only makes a difference if someone decided to return to your festering pimple of a state AND got pulled over and checked.
Got news: The 'long arm of the law' ain't so long, and justice is indeed blind. It may piss you off that people have comtempt of the law and just disregard it, but the law elsewhere says they can. And they do. Texas is not the federal government. They only have jurisdiction in Texas. When Texas starts sending the Rangers out for fugitive warrants for plate infractions...let me know. I'll start travelling around armed so I can whack with impunity.
The only reason we have a problem with Mexican Illegals is that Mexico doesn't float away because Texas sucks to goddamned hard. They could suck a golf ball through my arse and out my urethra when I tell them to "Blow Me Cowboy"--and they do so willingly.
The cost of the time it takes to respond to the citation and a first class stamp and registered mail. You are talking out your arse if you think a ticket for no front plate will fly on an out-of-state resident driving an out-of-state car. I DO NOT have to comply with OUT OF STATE regulations, I have to comply with MY STATE OF RESIDENCE regulations...
I travel the world, and posess an FIA issued international driver's license. I get a ticket in Morocco (ha!) it follows me on the FIA documentation, but not reciprocally to California. California gets upset I have maintained a Michigan License. I have a residence, and conduct business there, and am therefore entitled to have this. While I'm in Michigan. I can't use it in California as I also have a residence and conduct business there as well, and therefore have a California License.
Arubabill has it 100% absolutely correct, this is just another case of some Texas Arsehole being obstinate with his ignorance. Ticket me for no front plate Tex, and I'll handle it like every other state that is STUPID enough to write a ticket that is not enforceable: "Go Pound Sand" letter, Registered Mail, File the dismissal letter for future reference WHEN it arrives (and it ALWAYS does!)
"Appearing By Proxy" is simple. Just because you live in a backwards-ares part of the country doesn't mean the rest of us will tolerate your stupid good old boy local shennanigans. Worse comes to worst: Shoot the Trooper in the Face and drive on. Texas Law: "He needed killin'!" Simple as that.
And one other thing: Get written for 92 in a 55 outside Eagle Pass. Don't appear. Get a warrant issued.
GOT NEWS JWG: Nobody is going to extradite, nobody is going to enforce the warrant outside your little incestuous cauldron of discontent. GO POUND SAND! It only makes a difference if someone decided to return to your festering pimple of a state AND got pulled over and checked.
Got news: The 'long arm of the law' ain't so long, and justice is indeed blind. It may piss you off that people have comtempt of the law and just disregard it, but the law elsewhere says they can. And they do. Texas is not the federal government. They only have jurisdiction in Texas. When Texas starts sending the Rangers out for fugitive warrants for plate infractions...let me know. I'll start travelling around armed so I can whack with impunity.
The only reason we have a problem with Mexican Illegals is that Mexico doesn't float away because Texas sucks to goddamned hard. They could suck a golf ball through my arse and out my urethra when I tell them to "Blow Me Cowboy"--and they do so willingly.
So you're the expert in traffic citations on the board-huh?'You have the Texas or Az. DMV code book sitting on your desk?JGW006 said:Arubabill, I give up. You are right. Wholly, totally, completely, without reserve. I give up like the British at New Orleans, like the French in (wow, too many times to count), like the Bills in 3 different Super Bowls (or was it 4?). It was the use of the all caps key that did it. I wasn't sure until I got to the all caps, then I realized the flaws of my logic, the errors of my elucidation, and the inherent brilliance found in the eloquence of Mssr. Arubabill's reasoning, analysis and argument. Yep, it was the all caps.
To the rest of ya'll, is it common on this Board to react without thought? To read into a post that which is not there? To confuse "something can happen even if it shouldn't and if it does it may be expensive to fix" with "huh uh, can't happen because it can't happen because it can't"?
How many tickets have YOU written?
Quoting Hamlet in regards to a traffic cite topic.How......different.
Or in terms you can understand:"Your head is so far up your a$$,you need a glass belly-button to see where you're walking".
For everyone else,go to www.lexisnexis.com and order the DMV code for your state($41.00) and get EDUCATED!
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