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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think the new 240 looks kinda cool. Kind of a mix of the old and the new. They haven't picked a motor for it but, I hope it at least has as much power as the new Honda roadsters (240hp) Think about that a 2.4 in a Z with 240 hp Right out of the box.
What does everyone think?
Bill
 

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what i think

i think a skyline drivetrain would work well with this car.
imagine a twin-turbo, inline-six, all-wheel drive 240Z
that would be well worth the price. definitely a vette smoker.

> I think the new 240 looks kinda cool. Kind
> of a mix of the old and the new. They
> haven't picked a motor for it but, I hope it
> at least has as much power as the new Honda
> roadsters (240hp) Think about that a 2.4 in
> a Z with 240 hp Right out of the box.
> What does everyone think?
> Bill
 

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my thoughts.... long winded....

> I think the new 240 looks kinda cool. Kind
> of a mix of the old and the new. They
> haven't picked a motor for it but, I hope it
> at least has as much power as the new Honda
> roadsters (240hp) Think about that a 2.4 in
> a Z with 240 hp Right out of the box.
> What does everyone think?

I think that it is unfortunate that Nissan isn't in a position to make what they should make for the new Z car. They are strapped under so much corporate debt (32 BILLION last I heard) and are lacking in affordable common rearwheel drive platforms to build the car on and don't have much use for creating a new reardrive platform to use elsewhere.

The new Bug that gets so much attention is built on the Golf platform which is one of the best selling cars in Europe. I haven't followed the skyline stuff at all but aparantly it is too expensive of a platform to use or convert for left hand drive? But by making the Bug off a common setup VW can afford to create a completely unique car that retains much of the original's styling.

Honda has chosen to build the S2000 as rear wheel drive (again no expert on its platform or setup) and they are aparantly in a position to build what they want to. Their current car line is selling great so more attention is all the better with the budget to back it.

I stopped at a Nissan lot awhile back and was very unimpressed. Their cars were very plain. They've done what american companies did in the 70's when Nissan took over.... they stayed making what they were making while the market changed. While accords, camerys, corollas.... all got larger Nissan kept making the same sentras and such. And while other companies styling got bold Nissan kept rounding out the corners on their econoboxes.

Nissan forgot the common car owner with the 90+ 300ZX which held onto the same styling for too long as sales dropped and prices climbed.

Honda caught the kids with it's civic and the aftermarket exploded. They got the adults with the Accord and the college grads with the prelude. And those with more money grabbed the Acura's. Nissan's upscale cars are to the best of my knowledge only larger luxury cars. (again not a market I follow too much)

Nissan has been very slow to jump on the SUV bandwagon (lower price than the pathfinder I mean) and larger truck craze. Honda was smart enough to put it's name on the Rodeo just to have something out there.

I'm sure there are designers and others at Nissan that have wonderful ideas as to what the new Z should be but they are most certainly held back by budgets. It seems to be a common belief that it SHOULD have a 6 cylinder and even better a straight 6. Imagine what modern tech could do with a straight 6. The BMW Z3 with the 2.8l straight 6 is over 200HP. Imagine options like a turbo on that.

And (yes there is more) the market isn't the same as it was when the 240 took the world by storm. I'm not saying there isn't a market for what we want but at that time the only cars at all like the Z were far more expensive and not as 'fun'. The 240 came in WAY under the price and often out performed them and was a lot more user friendly. In a time of Camaro's and Mustangs and other large cars it was unique for the masses. It did what the Miata did for convertibles. Prior to the Miata which was initially 'supposed to' sell for around $13,000 a convertible was way more expensive and not as reliable in many cases. And although the Miata didn't have quite the effect on the market that the 240 did it probably did a lot to pave the way for the Z3 and S2000's.

The Z car market is far more crowded than it was in 1970. In my opinion Nissan would have to attack full on to take back their share of the import market. A bold throwback to the 240 sytle not an entirely new car with hints of the 240 which is what they built and called it. A few powerplant choices from tame that would be under 20,000 to wild closer to 30,000. If Ford can sell a Mustang for $17,000 and another for $25,000 with the major difference being what's under the hood why can't nissan? If they must then put a 4 cyl in one for the college girls and a turbo 6 for the weekend racer. A 2+2 and a pure 2 seater. Sadly I think Nissan is poised to make a sleaker slightly faster 200SX with the Z name on it.

It will none-the-less be interesting to see what if finally does end up being.

-Trevor
 

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Re: my thoughts.... long winded....

> I think that it is unfortunate that Nissan
> isn't in a position to make what they should
> make for the new Z car. They are strapped
> under so much corporate debt (32 BILLION
> last I heard) and are lacking in affordable
> common rearwheel drive platforms to build
> the car on and don't have much use for
> creating a new reardrive platform to use
> elsewhere.

> The new Bug that gets so much attention is
> built on the Golf platform which is one of
> the best selling cars in Europe. I haven't
> followed the skyline stuff at all but
> aparantly it is too expensive of a platform
> to use or convert for left hand drive? But
> by making the Bug off a common setup VW can
> afford to create a completely unique car
> that retains much of the original's styling.

> Honda has chosen to build the S2000 as rear
> wheel drive (again no expert on its platform
> or setup) and they are aparantly in a
> position to build what they want to. Their
> current car line is selling great so more
> attention is all the better with the budget
> to back it.

> I stopped at a Nissan lot awhile back and
> was very unimpressed. Their cars were very
> plain. They've done what american companies
> did in the 70's when Nissan took over....
> they stayed making what they were making
> while the market changed. While accords,
> camerys, corollas.... all got larger Nissan
> kept making the same sentras and such. And
> while other companies styling got bold
> Nissan kept rounding out the corners on
> their econoboxes.

> Nissan forgot the common car owner with the
> 90+ 300ZX which held onto the same styling
> for too long as sales dropped and prices
> climbed.

> Honda caught the kids with it's civic and
> the aftermarket exploded. They got the
> adults with the Accord and the college grads
> with the prelude. And those with more money
> grabbed the Acura's. Nissan's upscale cars
> are to the best of my knowledge only larger
> luxury cars. (again not a market I follow
> too much)

> Nissan has been very slow to jump on the SUV
> bandwagon (lower price than the pathfinder I
> mean) and larger truck craze. Honda was
> smart enough to put it's name on the Rodeo
> just to have something out there.

> I'm sure there are designers and others at
> Nissan that have wonderful ideas as to what
> the new Z should be but they are most
> certainly held back by budgets. It seems to
> be a common belief that it SHOULD have a 6
> cylinder and even better a straight 6.
> Imagine what modern tech could do with a
> straight 6. The BMW Z3 with the 2.8l
> straight 6 is over 200HP. Imagine options
> like a turbo on that.

> And (yes there is more) the market isn't the
> same as it was when the 240 took the world
> by storm. I'm not saying there isn't a
> market for what we want but at that time the
> only cars at all like the Z were far more
> expensive and not as 'fun'. The 240 came in
> WAY under the price and often out performed
> them and was a lot more user friendly. In a
> time of Camaro's and Mustangs and other
> large cars it was unique for the masses. It
> did what the Miata did for convertibles.
> Prior to the Miata which was initially
> 'supposed to' sell for around $13,000 a
> convertible was way more expensive and not
> as reliable in many cases. And although the
> Miata didn't have quite the effect on the
> market that the 240 did it probably did a
> lot to pave the way for the Z3 and S2000's.

> The Z car market is far more crowded than it
> was in 1970. In my opinion Nissan would have
> to attack full on to take back their share
> of the import market. A bold throwback to
> the 240 sytle not an entirely new car
> with hints of the 240 which is what
> they built and called it. A few powerplant
> choices from tame that would be under 20,000
> to wild closer to 30,000. If Ford can sell a
> Mustang for $17,000 and another for $25,000
> with the major difference being what's under
> the hood why can't nissan? If they must then
> put a 4 cyl in one for the college girls and
> a turbo 6 for the weekend racer. A 2+2 and a
> pure 2 seater. Sadly I think Nissan is
> poised to make a sleaker slightly faster
> 200SX with the Z name on it.

> It will none-the-less be interesting to see
> what if finally does end up being.

> -Trevor
I agree with ya, I just think that like you said, nissan's in no position financially to go too much out on a limb, and that will probably be their undoing. I hope ford or somebody buys them out and gives them a kick in the ass, they certainly need it. (considering that the alternative is them going out of business a buyout isn't so bad really, plus ford's been pretty good with jaguar really) But after seeing all the pictures from the detroit auto show, I hate to say it but I'm thinkin the Honda S2000 is looking more like something I'd buy (though I'm not real thrilled about the convertible aspect of it).
 

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Re: my thoughts.... long winded....

> I hate
> to say it but I'm thinkin the Honda S2000 is
> looking more like something I'd buy (though
> I'm not real thrilled about the convertible
> aspect of it).

The lines on the S2000 don't do a whole lot for me but it does have some appealing qualities and I would just like to hear what that engine revved up to 8,500 RPM sounds like.

As for the buyout It could definatly be the boost that they'd need. Who knows maybe with the right backing they could do the Z right.
 

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Re: my thoughts.... long winded....

> The lines on the S2000 don't do a whole lot
> for me but it does have some appealing
> qualities and I would just like to hear what
> that engine revved up to 8,500 RPM sounds
> like.

Drive an Integra GS-R, it'll sound just like that. I found it to be rather buzzy, and slightly annoying. No soul.
 

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FAITH

Have a little faith, boys. Nissan did it once, they can do it again. It's all about the simplicity of the Z... the original 240Z was a 2.4 I6 that did not produce tons of power, but was light weight because of the simplicity, and therefore was easy to make fast. Thats all they have to do again. Make something simple and cheap, get a strong foothold in the market with what will be a rebirth of the Z, and then work up from there. If they produced a nice, simple 240Z that output a simple 140hp from an I6 (which should not be hard too do) for less than $15,000, I would be ecstatic!!! Then after they've caught everyones attention by whooping the Civics and other econo's for the same buck, then move it up to compete with the preludes and integras and other small sport-compacts near $20K, then hopefully still sticking to the I6 (with todays technology) turbo it for some real competition for less than $30. Thats how they can do it from such a low budget. And I really hope they keep it Nissan and don't slap an Infiniti sticker on it. I really dislike Infiniti and their huge boats they call luxury cars. Besides, slap an Infiniti sticker on a Z and it will jump another $5000, just like they did with the 200 becoming the Infiniti G20. But keep faith guys. They need us Z-fanatics backing them up or we'll never get our dream car back.
 

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Re: FAITH

they have already set the target price at around $25,000. That leaves very little hope that they will sell it at the price of a Civic (don't know the price but the Civic SI is around 180 HP)

And I for one would be thrilled if SOMEONE would make a Simple Basic car in any form. Simple and Basic doesn't seem to equate to not a lot of fancy stuff anymore but more to real cheap inside. Again using the Civic for an Example. The Base DX has cheap fabric on the seats (and it at least feels like less support to the seats), lots of plastic everywhere inside and the plastic has little popouts for where the switches would be if you bought the fancier model. In order to get the better seats and more cloth inside you have to also get the other features that come with the LX. A 200SX goes for around the same area as a Civic so how's Nissan going to build a real car for the same price as the 200SX? I don't want bells an whistles Just a comfortable ride in a fun car. Keep the power locks and windows and the Factory CD player. Like the Saturn Coupe where in order to get the color matched bumpers so they don't look all dorky black as the rest of the car is a different color you have to get the higher up model which includes all the crud I don't want/need.

It's been a long time since Nissan gave up on us early Z fans (with the exception of the restored 240's) And they did even call the new Z just an entirely new car with hints of the classic Z.

hopefull? YES. Faith..... not much.

Support them? YES. Buy one at around $25,000. Not a chance.

Buy the car you described for $15,000. SIGN ME UP!!

Heck, just imagine if they actually made a new straight 6 that could bolt up to our old Z's!!!

I agree wholeheartedly that they need the different levels for the Z with different amounts of power to it. Heck they could even have a version of it with the Infinity Sticker for the 90+ 300ZX fans to oogle over.
 

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Re: FAITH

Then cry out for a z that low price and fast like we did when they frist came out 1970! Blood and bloody ashes. I would like to see a 240 inline six new beat a mustang any day we need power and we are just useing it on talk about Z are the best cars On the road. Small and fast and shock a **** of a lot of people with it even when there driving a v8. Small fast and cool is what it should be and we need to voice it out to them nissan and get the old name datsun. shock them amaricans. Or small car built for a amaricans. I dont care for amarian made anymore I try it once. And evry micanic told me a escort was a good car one it lack speed two it ate more gas then a z and it was crap! We need some thing to force the z back and put the mustang where they need to be slow cars!!
 

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Re: FAITH

Another thing that makes me say hmmm... is in the new MotorTrend with the article on pg 28 that interviews the president of North America Nissan. He said that We used to be known for performance, number one as far as horsepower is concerned. Toyota would have a model at 100 horsepower, Honda at 110, and we would make 120. So I'm wondering what models are they going to try to beat now. The Civic and Corolla (since they quit producing the 200SX), or the Prelude and Celica (since they quit producing the 240SX), or the class that has no market anymore since the Supra is gone. They can do any of these and probably sell. Will they reinvent the 4cylinder like Honda has done with the S2000, or will they stick to there guns with the I6 that the original Zs had. I prefer the latter. One) It has historical meaning. All the old Zs had 6cylinders, and the first 4 generations were I6. Two) The I6 allows them to compete in both of the upper divisions. A N/A I6 from Nissan could definitely beat the Prelude, Integra, and Celicas out there, no doubt. But then if you turbocharge it, you can be making some serious power that will put you in a class that is empty right now because of the loss in sport cars. It just makes more since. And if they are going for right around $25K, then they lied in the MotorTrend article about their target market, young people. Few young people can afford $25K. They need to strive for less.Just leave all the fancy gadgetry out, and give us a Z!

> they have already set the target price at
> around $25,000. That leaves very little hope
> that they will sell it at the price of a
> Civic (don't know the price but the Civic SI
> is around 180 HP)

> And I for one would be thrilled if SOMEONE
> would make a Simple Basic car in any form.
> Simple and Basic doesn't seem to equate to
> not a lot of fancy stuff anymore but more to
> real cheap inside. Again using the Civic for
> an Example. The Base DX has cheap fabric on
> the seats (and it at least feels like less
> support to the seats), lots of plastic
> everywhere inside and the plastic has little
> popouts for where the switches would be if
> you bought the fancier model. In order to
> get the better seats and more cloth inside
> you have to also get the other features that
> come with the LX. A 200SX goes for around
> the same area as a Civic so how's Nissan
> going to build a real car for the same price
> as the 200SX? I don't want bells an whistles
> Just a comfortable ride in a fun car. Keep
> the power locks and windows and the Factory
> CD player. Like the Saturn Coupe where in
> order to get the color matched bumpers so
> they don't look all dorky black as the rest
> of the car is a different color you have to
> get the higher up model which includes all
> the crud I don't want/need.

> It's been a long time since Nissan gave up
> on us early Z fans (with the exception of
> the restored 240's) And they did even call
> the new Z just an entirely new car
> with hints of the classic Z.

> hopefull? YES. Faith..... not much.

> Support them? YES. Buy one at around
> $25,000. Not a chance.

> Buy the car you described for $15,000. SIGN
> ME UP!!

> Heck, just imagine if they actually made a
> new straight 6 that could bolt up to our old
> Z's!!!

> I agree wholeheartedly that they need the
> different levels for the Z with different
> amounts of power to it. Heck they could even
> have a version of it with the Infinity
> Sticker for the 90+ 300ZX fans to oogle
> over.
 

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RE: Who has seen the new "Automoble" mag

I feel that Nissan has been needing this makeover for a very long time. They needed to build the (great!) 240 that started it all. Since 70 untill now the Z car lives and it will still live untill there are not any left to drull on. I wish that Nissan would just build the original body style, no new stuff, just keep it original and sell it as cheap as they can and then come out with the all new 240 so that kids today will know how it felt to ride in an original Z car.

thank you
aaron
 
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