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Discussion Starter #1
I just got a new beater Z. An 83. Im thinking about dropping a V8 in it. Its got a good chassis and body but practically no interior and dont feel like restoring it. So, I thought you know, what the ****. Has anyone in here done this to a 79-83? if so what would be the best engine, 302, 327, 350?

Coop
 

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Discussion Starter #2
> So, I thought you know, what the ****. Has
> anyone in here done this to a 79-83? if so
> what would be the best engine, 302, 327,
> 350?
> Coop
---------------------------
Why not a Lexus LS 400 Quad cam, 32 valve OHC V-8 ?????

see an example at: <A HREF=http://www.jps.net/zparts>http://www.jps.net/zparts</A>/
 

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Discussion Starter #3
> ---------------------------
> Why not a Lexus LS 400 Quad cam, 32 valve
> OHC V-8 ?????

> see an example at:
> <A HREF=http://www.jps.net/zparts>http://www.jps.net/zparts</A> /

A lexus engine? I dont have that kind of money!! :)
 

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> I just got a new beater Z. An 83. Im
> thinking about dropping a V8 in it. Its got
> a good chassis and body but practically no
> interior and dont feel like restoring it.
> So, I thought you know, what the ****. Has
> anyone in here done this to a 79-83? if so
> what would be the best engine, 302, 327,
> 350?

> Coop

I just was reading a Chevy magazine and saw an ad for Mr. Goodwrench engines. Now, these are brand-spanking new engines available from the GM dealer. The ad listed a 350 rated at 250hp for $1189.00! You can't even REBUILD a STOCK Z motor for that price!!!! I'm sure that you can find a kit to bolt a small-block Chevy into your ZX. They are put into Z's all the time. The small Ford is also a good choice because of the distributor placement, but there are no kits that I know of. I am doing a Ford 302 in a 72 240Z right now. Your ability to fabricate engine and tranny mounts will make your decision on which engine to choose. Hint: The Chevy is by far the cheapest way to go. Use a 350. There's no replacement for displacement!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
> I just was reading a Chevy magazine and saw
> an ad for Mr. Goodwrench engines. Now, these
> are brand-spanking new engines available
> from the GM dealer. The ad listed a 350
> rated at 250hp for $1189.00! You can't even
> REBUILD a STOCK Z motor for that price!!!!
> I'm sure that you can find a kit to bolt a
> small-block Chevy into your ZX. They are put
> into Z's all the time. The small Ford is
> also a good choice because of the
> distributor placement, but there are no kits
> that I know of. I am doing a Ford 302 in a
> 72 240Z right now. Your ability to fabricate
> engine and tranny mounts will make your
> decision on which engine to choose. Hint:
> The Chevy is by far the cheapest way to go.
> Use a 350. There's no replacement for
> displacement!

What does that price include? You would still have to get the distributor, intake manifold, carburator, exhaust and other things to go with it right? Could always get those parts of a parts car or something.
 

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here's a stack of info

Z & ZX conversion experiences/comments a plenty
<A HREF=http://www.whit.org>http://www.whit.org</A>:80/jcaudle/

drop me a line w/ any q's or any of the people posted at John's site, much of my ride has changed but the experience was still the same.

John's Cars in Dallas makes a kit that works v. well as I understand. His 'seems' pricey but in comparison is supposed to cover most bases really well. Myself I think it can be done cheaper if you have enough elbow grease and resources to invest rather than just $. displacement is the cheapest power, if you build a 383 (still a 350 block, stroked though) it's max bang per buck. Then again w/ more money you could build a small block 427 (yes a small block, cool eh;^) covered in a chevy mag this last summer. The complete GM performance catalog can be downloaded in sections, do a search, I dont' recall just where but it's a great start for reading up on their parts. As well be sure to get a www.jagsthatrun.com manual just for enjoyable reading!

HTH
 

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Re: $1200 350 motor

> What does that price include? You would
> still have to get the distributor, intake
> manifold, carburator, exhaust and other
> things to go with it right? Could always get
> those parts of a parts car or something.

I am pretty sure that the $1189.00 included a timing cover and oil pan. Yes, you would still need a carb, ign,water pump, exhaust man./headers, and accessories. But really, people, how expensive are Chevy parts? NOT!!! I would throw on an Edelbrock manifold for $120, and Carter AFB for $190 and a Mallory Unilite for $ 150. A water pump is about $30 and block hugger headers can be had for about $80. Soo... thats a grand total of about $1800. There is no way you could build a Z motor with 250 hp for $1800. And talk about torque!!! ha!!!
Well, that's just my opinion.
 

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Re: $1200 350 motor

> I am pretty sure that the $1189.00 included
> a timing cover and oil pan. Yes, you would
> still need a carb, ign,water pump, exhaust
> man./headers, and accessories. But really,
> people, how expensive are Chevy parts?
> NOT!!! I would throw on an Edelbrock
> manifold for $120, and Carter AFB for $190
> and a Mallory Unilite for $ 150. A water
> pump is about $30 and block hugger headers
> can be had for about $80. Soo... thats a
> grand total of about $1800. There is no way
> you could build a Z motor with 250 hp for
> $1800. And talk about torque!!! ha!!!
> Well, that's just my opinion.

Okay - first off I don't have anything against the V8 guys. Just want to point out a few things...

Wouldn't you still have to get a transmission, and a custom driveshaft, and do a bunch of fabrication to install the V8? Is that stuff all free? I'm guessing at a minimum you'd have to spend $200-300 for that stuff. After all of this, you'd have an engine that was RATED at 250hp. Also, remember that their ratings were most likely done with headers that flow a little better than the block hugger headers, which you'll have to use. Even assuming that the headers don't matter, 250 crank hp translates to around 225hp at the wheels for a manual trans, and 212hp for an automatic.

Sorry, that doesn't give me a hard on.

And maybe you can't build a 250hp L6 for $1800 (actually you probably could but you'd have to be pretty efficient). BUT, there was a guy selling a complete low mileage, as I recall) turbo L28 engine back down the page a ways that DYNOed at 312hp and 385 ft-ls of torque AT THE WHEELS, and everybody (except Mr. Nyerlin) **** all over him, because he wanted $2500 for it. That's only a few hundred dollars more, and a **** of alot less work.

I just don't understand this.

BTW, a 250hp SB350 with just a carb and headers and no other work won't even come close to 385 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels.

I'm really not trying to start a flame war, but every time I see someone talking about engine swaps (with a few exceptions), they never seem to be talking about an end result that is appreciably better than what you can do with a decent turbo L6.
 

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Re: $1200 350 motor

First of all, let me state that I personally own a 240Z with a turbo L28 stroker and I would not own a Z w/a V8. There are plenty of people on this earth who do the V8 conversion. In fact, I am working on a Ford 302 conversion for one of my customers as we chat. I do not see anything wrong with someone wanting a V8 in a Z-car. It is their car and they can do with it as they choose.
Now, about the motor advertised for $1189.00. This was advertised as a stock replacement for Chevy's built from '67 to '86. I am assuming that these vehicles came with a Quadrajunk carburator, cast iron intake and exhaust manifolds. If the motor will make 250hp under these conditions, then aftermarket bolt-ons can only improve it. Yes, you still have to get a tranny, mounts, and driveline, but the expense is minimal. And, you end up with a brand new motor that, I didn't mention, has a 5 year, 50,000 mile warranty. Now, why would you want to buy a turbo L28 that someone else built and is of unknown quality when you can get a warrany on a new V8 for less money?

I AM NOT KNOCKING THE QUALITY OF THE TURBO L28 REFERED TO.

However it doesn't come with a warranty, does it?
Now consider this. A Chevy SBV8 w/aluminum heads is about the same weight as a L6 without turbo. Keep in mind that the turbo stuff adds 50+lbs to the FRONT of the car. The Chevy motor can be positioned far toward the rear of the engine compartment and actually have a positive effect on the car's handling. I personally know a 240Z w/aluminum heads that is a streetcar/autocrosser. The car does 11's in the quarter w/autocross suspension setup. It also kick's my 1900lb autocross240Z's butt in the SCCA's OSP class. That's nothing to shake a stick at.

The turbo L6 is a great setup. However to do it right, you have to spend thousands on building a motor that can handle the high compression pressures, upgraded turbo, custom exhaust and intercooler, and fuel injection system. If you go the turbo L6 route, be prepared to spend $10,000.00 + to get it right. Just ask Steve Webb who's Stealth Z is on the zhome.com page. His turbo 240Z is making over 400hp and 420lbs of torque. However, at an extreme price.

So, consider this:
for about $3000.00 you can put a 250hp Chevy 350 in your Z that will probably make the car do low 14's to high 13's in the quarter mile and, at the same time, improve the weight distribution of the car. Not only that, but now that the 240Z's are exempt from smog (CA.) we can do whatever we want.
Hmmmm....
thoughts of a Vortech blown, 383 LT4 motor are going through my head.
Now that gives ME a hardon!!!
Maybe I could own a V8 Z-Car.....
Nah! I'll stick with my overweight L28ET powered 240Z.
BTW, I don't want to start a flame war either, I'm just posting the facts for people who are interested in the V8 option.
Z-Ya!!!!!!!

> Okay - first off I don't have anything
> against the V8 guys. Just want to point out
> a few things...

> Wouldn't you still have to get a
> transmission, and a custom driveshaft, and
> do a bunch of fabrication to install the V8?
> Is that stuff all free? I'm guessing at a
> minimum you'd have to spend $200-300 for
> that stuff. After all of this, you'd have an
> engine that was RATED at 250hp. Also,
> remember that their ratings were most likely
> done with headers that flow a little better
> than the block hugger headers, which you'll
> have to use. Even assuming that the headers
> don't matter, 250 crank hp translates to
> around 225hp at the wheels for a manual
> trans, and 212hp for an automatic.

> Sorry, that doesn't give me a hard on.

> And maybe you can't build a 250hp L6 for
> $1800 (actually you probably could but you'd
> have to be pretty efficient). BUT, there was
> a guy selling a complete low mileage, as I
> recall) turbo L28 engine back down the page
> a ways that DYNOed at 312hp and 385 ft-ls of
> torque AT THE WHEELS, and everybody (except
> Mr. Nyerlin) **** all over him, because he
> wanted $2500 for it. That's only a few
> hundred dollars more, and a **** of alot
> less work.

> I just don't understand this.

> BTW, a 250hp SB350 with just a carb and
> headers and no other work won't even come
> close to 385 ft-lbs of torque at the wheels.

> I'm really not trying to start a flame war,
> but every time I see someone talking about
> engine swaps (with a few exceptions), they
> never seem to be talking about an end result
> that is appreciably better than what you can
> do with a decent turbo L6.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: $1200 350 motor

A few weeks ago I put up a post asking about rebuilding my L28. Most of the responses said I'd be looking at at least $4000.00 for a quality job with stock parts. I did call around and it was $3000.00 on the low end He had not done one (L28) to date. And the I did get in touch with a shop in S.Cali for just under Five grand. After all that The only plus to keeping the L28 was the handleing. I really like the L28 but for the money I think I will go with the sb350 and 700R4. If I could only find someone that's not out to retire off me I would keep my L28.
 

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Re: $1200 350 motor

> First of all, let me state that I personally
> own a 240Z with a turbo L28 stroker and I
> would not own a Z w/a V8. There are plenty
> of people on this earth who do the V8
> conversion. In fact, I am working on a Ford
> 302 conversion for one of my customers as we
> chat. I do not see anything wrong with
> someone wanting a V8 in a Z-car. It is their
> car and they can do with it as they choose.

I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with the V8 conversion cars, and I know that they can be fast. That wasn't my issue.

> Now, about the motor advertised for
> $1189.00. This was advertised as a stock
> replacement for Chevy's built from '67 to
> '86. I am assuming that these vehicles came
> with a Quadrajunk carburator, cast iron
> intake and exhaust manifolds. If the motor
> will make 250hp under these conditions, then
> aftermarket bolt-ons can only improve it.
> Yes, you still have to get a tranny, mounts,
> and driveline, but the expense is minimal.
> And, you end up with a brand new motor that,
> I didn't mention, has a 5 year, 50,000 mile
> warranty. Now, why would you want to buy a
> turbo L28 that someone else built and is of
> unknown quality when you can get a warrany
> on a new V8 for less money?

Again, you have no way of knowing what conditions that 250hp rating was made under, and I think you're being pretty optimistic to think that they rated it under less than ideal conditions. What possible reason would they have for doing that?

> However it doesn't come with a warranty,
> does it?

What exactly does that warranty cover? If these engines were intended as stock replacements, are you sure they are still covered in a custom, non-stock application, such as a V8 Z? At any rate, if you bring a broken motor back to them out of your V8 Z after 2 or 3 years, I doubt that you'll get much out of the warranty. Racing applications void most warranties, and they'll probably agrue that you were racing it (why else would you put it in a Z car, right?).
Okay, maybe I'm being too cynical here, but remember it's probably going to be a GM dealership that you be trying to deal with.

> Now consider this. A Chevy SBV8 w/aluminum
> heads is about the same weight as a L6
> without turbo. Keep in mind that the turbo
> stuff adds 50+lbs to the FRONT of the car.
> The Chevy motor can be positioned far toward
> the rear of the engine compartment and
> actually have a positive effect on the car's
> handling. I personally know a 240Z
> w/aluminum heads that is a
> streetcar/autocrosser. The car does 11's in
> the quarter w/autocross suspension setup. It
> also kick's my 1900lb autocross240Z's butt
> in the SCCA's OSP class. That's nothing to
> shake a stick at.

That's all true, but we weren't talking about and aluminum head 11 sec car here, we were talking about a ~225 rwhp iron head V8.

> The turbo L6 is a great setup. However to do
> it right, you have to spend thousands on
> building a motor that can handle the high
> compression pressures, upgraded turbo,
> custom exhaust and intercooler, and fuel
> injection system. If you go the turbo L6
> route, be prepared to spend $10,000.00 + to
> get it right. Just ask Steve Webb who's
> Stealth Z is on the zhome.com page. His
> turbo 240Z is making over 400hp and 420lbs
> of torque. However, at an extreme price.

Again, I was just trying to point out that if you want a car with a 225 rwhp L6, it's not that hard to do, and the price is competitive. If you want 400+hp, yes it does get expensive, but it's not as cheap and easy to get 400+hp out of a V8 Z as everybody seems to think, either.
The big power adders cost money, no matter what.
BTW, before Steve Webb went all out on his motor, he was making ~300hp with a stock bottom end, as I recall.

Also, I was trying to point out that you were in the same ballpark price-wise as the guy with the $2500 turbo setup, and not in the same league power or torque-wise, yet everybody seemed to think that $2500 was way too much for that engine. Yes there is no warranty, and you'd have to have some way to verify the validity of the power claims, but you are still in the same price ballpark.

I hope I don't sound insulting with this response - that's not my intention. Also, let me reiterate that I have no problem with people doing V8 Zs. I've seen a couple of conversions that were really nice cars. It just raises my hackles a bit when I hear people saying that there is no way you can do that with the L6.
 

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Re: $1200 SBChevy

First let me sat that this is a great discussion and I am in no way insulted or offended by your posts or input. I also invite others to share their thoughts on this subject.

Now, you are probably right about the hp claims of the SBChevy in question. Now that I think of it, the poor thing was probably flogged on a dyno w/ full length headers, tuned intake and possibly fuel injection. However, its still not bad for under $1200.

About the warranty, it covers parts and labor required to remedy the problem. This obviously does not include R&R.

It's true that GM dealers can be a pain to deal with, but why tell them the motor is in a Z? Why not tell them its in your '77 Chevy work truck. This may be unethical, but think of how many people GM screws every year!

Now, about horsepower and costs. Yes its true that building a 400+hp SBChevy is not cheap or easy. And, yes power adders are very expensive. However, I think that building a 250hp L6 is more expensive that you are implying. Especially if it is naturally asparated.

However, building a powerful L6 on a slim budget can be done. My car is a testament to this. I used junkyard parts and spent about a grand on my turbo setup. For that grand I got a P90 head and rebuilt it, a stock T3 turbo, intake and exhaust manifolds, an aftermarket intercooler (which was on the car in the junkyard), exhaust down pipe, and stock'81 fuel injection system (complete w/computer, all sensors and injectors and fuel rail). Wow! That was a long sentence!
After I installed the system on the 3.0 stroker I already had, the car did a [email protected] at Famoso, Ca, pinging all the way down the strip. After upgrading the fuel supply system with a NOS pump, 1/2' feed line, Paxton adjustable regulator, custom fuel rail, and Ford Motorsport 30lb/hr injectors, the car did a [email protected] That was at the stock 6-7lbs boost. That upgrade cost me another grand. Now, I think that's pretty good for 2 grand. I can't wait to see what it'll do once I get the T3/T4 hybrid turbo, Accel DFI, and 15lbs boost.

BTW, were you aware that Steve Webb's stock turbo motor was purchased brand new from Nissan. I don't know the price, but it can't be cheap. Plus, he removed the head, shaved it, and redid the valvetrain to compensate. I also think he used an HKS head gasket, but I could be wrong. Anyway, he ended up w/ a non stock motor that probably cost more than $2500.

Anyway, we are in the same price ballpark as the advertised $2500 turbo motor, but I still argue that the V8 is a better value because it's brand new. BTW, all those guys who thought that $2500 was too much for that turbo motor should get their heads checked. And I don't mean their P90 heads either!

Anyway, my point is, after all this rambling, that there are ways to get 250hp from a Nissan L6. However, if you start from scratch, I think that you'd be over the $3000.00 it would cost for the SBChevy conversion. If I am wrong, please show me how to do it! I would love to have a 250hp L6 for $3000.
Keep on Z-ing!!!!

> I agree with you that there is nothing wrong
> with the V8 conversion cars, and I know that
> they can be fast. That wasn't my issue.

> Again, you have no way of knowing what
> conditions that 250hp rating was made under,
> and I think you're being pretty optimistic
> to think that they rated it under less than
> ideal conditions. What possible reason would
> they have for doing that?

> What exactly does that warranty cover? If
> these engines were intended as stock
> replacements, are you sure they are still
> covered in a custom, non-stock application,
> such as a V8 Z? At any rate, if you bring a
> broken motor back to them out of your V8 Z
> after 2 or 3 years, I doubt that you'll get
> much out of the warranty. Racing
> applications void most warranties, and
> they'll probably agrue that you were racing
> it (why else would you put it in a Z car,
> right?).
> Okay, maybe I'm being too cynical here, but
> remember it's probably going to be a GM
> dealership that you be trying to deal with.

> That's all true, but we weren't talking
> about and aluminum head 11 sec car here, we
> were talking about a ~225 rwhp iron head V8.

> Again, I was just trying to point out that
> if you want a car with a 225 rwhp L6, it's
> not that hard to do, and the price is
> competitive. If you want 400+hp, yes it does
> get expensive, but it's not as cheap and
> easy to get 400+hp out of a V8 Z as
> everybody seems to think, either.
> The big power adders cost money, no matter
> what.
> BTW, before Steve Webb went all out on his
> motor, he was making ~300hp with a stock
> bottom end, as I recall.

> Also, I was trying to point out that you
> were in the same ballpark price-wise as the
> guy with the $2500 turbo setup, and not in
> the same league power or torque-wise, yet
> everybody seemed to think that $2500 was way
> too much for that engine. Yes there is no
> warranty, and you'd have to have some way to
> verify the validity of the power claims, but
> you are still in the same price ballpark.

> I hope I don't sound insulting with this
> response - that's not my intention. Also,
> let me reiterate that I have no problem with
> people doing V8 Zs. I've seen a couple of
> conversions that were really nice cars. It
> just raises my hackles a bit when I hear
> people saying that there is no way you can
> do that with the L6.
 

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Re: $1200 SBChevy

Folks,

I just wanted to mention the usual trump card of Chevy SB engines (and most American V8's, for that matter) - torque. That stock or semi-stock 350 rated at 250 hp most likely gets that hp at something like 4000 rpm, and that translates into 328 ft-lbs of torque. Meanwhile, the 250 hp L6 probably makes its 250 hp at 6000 rpm, and that's 219 ft-lbs. Big seat of the pants difference!

But much as I love V8's, I'd have to agree that if you want to get 250 hp, it's a tough trade off between swapping in a V8 vs. upgrading the L6. So instead, let's ask another question: what if you wanted 400-500 hp? I checked the muscle car supplier catalogues (for example, Summit), and adding up all the pieces from oil pan to air intake, from water pump to exhaust pipe, a 450 hp bored and stroked Chevy SB runs about $5500 complete, and about $7500 with racing upgrades like forged crank, connecting rods, etc. And this thing pulls over 500 ft-lbs of torque.

Meanwhile, what if you spend $7500 on an L6 (including all accessories)? What torque and hp will that buy?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Re: $1200 350 motor

> I agree with you that there is nothing wrong
> with the V8 conversion cars, and I know that
> they can be fast. That wasn't my issue.

> Again, you have no way of knowing what
> conditions that 250hp rating was made under,
> and I think you're being pretty optimistic
> to think that they rated it under less than
> ideal conditions. What possible reason would
> they have for doing that?

> What exactly does that warranty cover? If
> these engines were intended as stock
> replacements, are you sure they are still
> covered in a custom, non-stock application,
> such as a V8 Z? At any rate, if you bring a
> broken motor back to them out of your V8 Z
> after 2 or 3 years, I doubt that you'll get
> much out of the warranty. Racing
> applications void most warranties, and
> they'll probably agrue that you were racing
> it (why else would you put it in a Z car,
> right?).
> Okay, maybe I'm being too cynical here, but
> remember it's probably going to be a GM
> dealership that you be trying to deal with.

> That's all true, but we weren't talking
> about and aluminum head 11 sec car here, we
> were talking about a ~225 rwhp iron head V8.

> Again, I was just trying to point out that
> if you want a car with a 225 rwhp L6, it's
> not that hard to do, and the price is
> competitive. If you want 400+hp, yes it does
> get expensive, but it's not as cheap and
> easy to get 400+hp out of a V8 Z as
> everybody seems to think, either.
> The big power adders cost money, no matter
> what.
> BTW, before Steve Webb went all out on his
> motor, he was making ~300hp with a stock
> bottom end, as I recall.

> Also, I was trying to point out that you
> were in the same ballpark price-wise as the
> guy with the $2500 turbo setup, and not in
> the same league power or torque-wise, yet
> everybody seemed to think that $2500 was way
> too much for that engine. Yes there is no
> warranty, and you'd have to have some way to
> verify the validity of the power claims, but
> you are still in the same price ballpark.

> I hope I don't sound insulting with this
> response - that's not my intention. Also,
> let me reiterate that I have no problem with
> people doing V8 Zs. I've seen a couple of
> conversions that were really nice cars. It
> just raises my hackles a bit when I hear
> people saying that there is no way you can
> do that with the L6.

Hi, would you happen to know of any v8 conversion kits available for the 280z.
I have just purchased a 75 z, and the motor is a little tired and i happen to have a fresh 350 sitting in my garage. Sounds like lots of fun.
I understand that the engine should be mounted a little further back?

I want to retain the 5 speed, or go with a chevy 5 speed if no kits are available. What do you think?
or, what do you think about a stroker motor?
 

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Re: $1200 350 motor

> Hi, would you happen to know of any v8
> conversion kits available for the 280z.
> I have just purchased a 75 z, and the motor
> is a little tired and i happen to have a
> fresh 350 sitting in my garage. Sounds like
> lots of fun.
> I understand that the engine should be
> mounted a little further back?

> I want to retain the 5 speed, or go with a
> chevy 5 speed if no kits are available. What
> do you think?
> or, what do you think about a stroker motor?

I have listen to both sides. For a small car with a 350 in it what the **** will be the gas milage. And why mess with some thing that already good. I like the control of the 83zx turbo. If the motor is good why put some thing that bigger. Unless you can get a better deal with a 350.

I love all the Z and the ZX why mess with them. They look better then the new cars. And are the new motors smaller and stronger. I want my car light and nimble and Fast. You can see I drive on the hills of calfornia. Love it and it fun.
 

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400small block

I bought a '73 Chevy Caprice with a 400SB in it for $600. The engine was driven by a grandma and had 63,000 miles on it. 600 miles later I put in my 72 blazer 4x4. It has a posi 3:73 rear with 35 tires. I left the 400SB stock with a
2 barrel manifold on it. This motor stock in 73 was rated at 150 or so HP with 300ftlb of torque at the rear wheels. When the accelerator was stomped the blazer was quite uncontrollable because of rear wheel spin of both sides. My next thought was Hmmmmm...... This motor would be fun to see in my 75 Datsun. I havent done it yet but thats the power of a healthy stock 400sb. I havent got the time or money to do it yet but any donation will be gladly excepted :) Thats my Thoughts! Find a good used motor from Grandma next door. She only went to church in it on Sundays.
 
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