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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am pondering buying your turbo, actually its eat a hole in my wallet . My problem is that I do not have all the fancy pants gadgets you have . I will more than likely have to run at a lower boost . I am doing the same type of setup as BOOST (the guys name) starion intercooler etc. I have studied the maps of your 57mm turbo and it looks pretty good for lower boost as well . I must admit it looks perfect for your application . I am looking to run 12 psi normal and mabey up to 17 psi like boost does . Do you honestly think I could run this turbo, or should I go with a smaller 46mm T04E which looks like it has incredible low rpm/low boost response . Could something be arranged with Majestic Turbo so we can do the buy sell through them . It makes selling and buying alot easier, after all $900 is a good chunk of change . I don't have your email address
 

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You will get more hp at 12psi on my turbo than you would at 12psi on the 46mm setup. Also, the turbo has the stage 3 turbine wheel which is considerably bigger than stock and flows quite well. I am also willing to switch exhaust manifolds with you because mine has already been modified, port matched and shimmed, for the turbo. As far as boost response, the bigger 57mm compressor wheel has little if any affect on spoolup. That is determined by your turbine wheel and a/r on the housing. I liked the response on the turbo and had no problem with spoolup. I could generally get about 15-16 psi of boost in 1st gear and full boost there after. Now for old boost, he had a nice setup and a fast car, I think around 12.6. I raced him a few times with that turbo and pulled away very easily every time. You should be able to easily run the turbo and I have the downpipe to sell with it. I have already spoken with the owner at majestic and he said it is no problem to ship you the turbo with the fresh rebuild. And by the way, the deal was $700, not $900.
Fresh turbo, modified manifold, 3 mandrell downpipe
You should have no problem running in the 12's with this turbo and the mods as boost has done. I can guarantee you that you will be whipping most every car you race with ease. There is 1 mod you will have to do.
Majestic (800)-231-5566 inquire about James turbo. Ask for Kevin

> I am pondering buying your turbo, actually
> its eat a hole in my wallet . My problem is
> that I do not have all the fancy pants
> gadgets you have . I will more than likely
> have to run at a lower boost . I am doing
> the same type of setup as BOOST (the guys
> name) starion intercooler etc. I have
> studied the maps of your 57mm turbo and it
> looks pretty good for lower boost as well .
> I must admit it looks perfect for your
> application . I am looking to run 12 psi
> normal and mabey up to 17 psi like boost
> does . Do you honestly think I could run
> this turbo, or should I go with a smaller
> 46mm T04E which looks like it has incredible
> low rpm/low boost response . Could something
> be arranged with Majestic Turbo so we can do
> the buy sell through them . It makes selling
> and buying alot easier, after all $900 is a
> good chunk of change . I don't have your
> email address
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you for the clarification on boost response what I meant was thermal effeciency . The 46mm has a peak eff of 76% and is above 72% for a large amount of the power band . I do admit that the 46mm does start to get a lower eff above 6 grand . I am not trying to argue with you, I still have a little question mark when it comes to turbo matching engines, but I am learning .I am going to email Kevin and will follow up with a phone call later . What exactly did you do to exhaust manifold, I live in Canada so shipping is a pain in the ass . Keep us posted on the new project .
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you for the clarification on boost response what I meant was thermal effeciency . The 46mm has a peak eff of 76% and is above 72% for a large amount of the power band . I do admit that the 46mm does start to get a lower eff above 6 grand . I am not trying to argue with you, I still have a little question mark when it comes to turbo matching engines, but I am learning .I am going to email Kevin and will follow up with a phone call later . What exactly did you do to exhaust manifold, I live in Canada so shipping is a pain in the ass . Keep us posted on the new project .
 

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I know you aren't arguing, I am the king of asking questions. I use to run the 46mm wheel before I upgraded. I started with a t3/to4b then went to a straight t3 with a monster compressor, then to a t3/t04e with 46mm, then t3/t04e with tc-3 turbine wheel and 46mm, and finally the turbo I have today. The bigger turbo will give you a much denser charge which is why you will produce more hp at a given boost level. The reason for the upgrades was in search of a good combination of boost response and power for a streetable car. The turbo I had gave me just that. My new turbo is a quest for all out power with not so much emphasis on boost response. Now as far as thermal effeciency above 6K, the stock turbo cam peaks at 4800 and I rarely had to take my engine over 6K. The exhaust manifold was port matched to the turbo and visa versa, Also a shim was made to space the turbo further off the manifold because the T04E compressor housing is quite a bit bigger than the T04B. I also have the seals that are placed on either side of the shim. Very easy to do. Also, the TC-3 wheel uses a housing with a slightly thicker flange. The flange holes were drilled in a press slightly larger and the studs in the exhaust manifold were replaced with longer and thicker ones. Everthing is a straight bolt up affair.

> Thank you for the clarification on boost
> response what I meant was thermal effeciency
> . The 46mm has a peak eff of 76% and is
> above 72% for a large amount of the power
> band . I do admit that the 46mm does start
> to get a lower eff above 6 grand . I am not
> trying to argue with you, I still have a
> little question mark when it comes to turbo
> matching engines, but I am learning .I am
> going to email Kevin and will follow up with
> a phone call later . What exactly did you do
> to exhaust manifold, I live in Canada so
> shipping is a pain in the ass . Keep us
> posted on the new project .
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
> I know you aren't arguing, I am the king of
> asking questions. I use to run the 46mm
> wheel before I upgraded. I started with a
> t3/to4b then went to a straight t3 with a
> monster compressor, then to a t3/t04e with
> 46mm, then t3/t04e with tc-3 turbine wheel
> and 46mm, and finally the turbo I have
> today. The bigger turbo will give you a much
> denser charge which is why you will produce
> more hp at a given boost level. The reason
> for the upgrades was in search of a good
> combination of boost response and power for
> a streetable car. The turbo I had gave me
> just that. My new turbo is a quest for all
> out power with not so much emphasis on boost
> response. Now as far as thermal effeciency
> above 6K, the stock turbo cam peaks at 4800
> and I rarely had to take my engine over 6K.
> The exhaust manifold was port matched to the
> turbo and visa versa, Also a shim was made
> to space the turbo further off the manifold
> because the T04E compressor housing is quite
> a bit bigger than the T04B. I also have the
> seals that are placed on either side of the
> shim. Very easy to do. Also, the TC-3 wheel
> uses a housing with a slightly thicker
> flange. The flange holes were drilled in a
> press slightly larger and the studs in the
> exhaust manifold were replaced with longer
> and thicker ones. Everthing is a straight
> bolt up affair.

Excellent info now the grey areas are getting filled in . Correct me if I am wrong but if a turbo has a higher thermal effeciency at a given boost level and mass airflow . It will produce more horsepower (denser charge) no matter what the size is . Since you have had the 46mm T04E I will ditch the theoretical crap . What are you real life comparisons of the 46 and 57mm turbos . By the way that is alot of upgrading your first hand knowledge is gold to me . Can find that in no HONDA I mean Turbo Magazine .
 

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I don't think thermal efficiency is you main concern. You need to look at the maps that show the density of the charge, usually expressed in lb/hr. Some of the maps show flow of the turbo in cfm, this is what dictates the hp you will be able to produce. The change from the 46 to the 57 is quite noticable and once you hit full boost the car pulls like a bandit. I think the 57 is a great wheel for the z car and you will be extremely happy with the results.
> Excellent info now the grey areas are
> getting filled in . Correct me if I am wrong
> but if a turbo has a higher thermal
> effeciency at a given boost level and mass
> airflow . It will produce more horsepower
> (denser charge) no matter what the size is .
> Since you have had the 46mm T04E I will
> ditch the theoretical crap . What are you
> real life comparisons of the 46 and 57mm
> turbos . By the way that is alot of
> upgrading your first hand knowledge is gold
> to me . Can find that in no HONDA I mean
> Turbo Magazine .
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
> I don't think thermal efficiency is you main
> concern. You need to look at the maps that
> show the density of the charge, usually
> expressed in lb/hr. Some of the maps show
> flow of the turbo in cfm, this is what
> dictates the hp you will be able to produce.
> The change from the 46 to the 57 is quite
> noticable and once you hit full boost the
> car pulls like a bandit. I think the 57 is a
> great wheel for the z car and you will be
> extremely happy with the results.

Will the 3 downpipe work with a
280ZX exhaust system?

Thanks,

Carlos L.
 

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> Will the 3 downpipe work with a
> 280ZX exhaust system?

> Thanks,

> Carlos L.

Carlos, that depends on what you mean by work. you might be able to connect the two pieces, but you would be looking at some serious restrictions downstream. turbos don't tolerate restrictions very well. i went with an all-new custom 3 system from the turbo to the straight-thru muffler (really just a tuned pipe) which is 6 and out the 4 tip. remember, heat wants to expand as it exits the turbo, so give it some room.

tim 78 turbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
> I don't think thermal efficiency is you main
> concern. You need to look at the maps that
> show the density of the charge, usually
> expressed in lb/hr. Some of the maps show
> flow of the turbo in cfm, this is what
> dictates the hp you will be able to produce.
> The change from the 46 to the 57 is quite
> noticable and once you hit full boost the
> car pulls like a bandit. I think the 57 is a
> great wheel for the z car and you will be
> extremely happy with the results.
Actually when air is compressed by a turbo there is heat created just by compression, and heat created by turbulence . The roundish shapes on the compressor map refer to adiabatic effeciency or ( 100% means no heat is produced due to turbulence ). Now if we compare to compressor maps in mass air flow (what it should be not volume). Example compare at 12 psi boost for the 46mm and 57mm .
1) Pick a temp for air 70F
2) Calc the volume of air needed for 2.8l at 6500rpm
3) Convert to mass flow in lb/hr
4) Compare the eff of both turbines at that same boost and mass airflow .
This can be done for a number of differnt of points and change the rpm .
I actually did all this stuff in EXCEL with an intercooler . It took away alot of the Hocus Pocus of turbo selection . Now I do not claim to know everything about this but I know the basics.
If you go to Ray Hall he has a java applet TURBO MAPS and it is very easy to use . You can actually compare to compressor maps for your engine and see which one is more effecient at a given boost and rpm level . I hope we can talk more on this subject . Practical experience is probably more useful in this situation, because there are many things that can't be measured . These things give a closer starting point work with . I am probably going to buy the turbo from you, since you have been helpfull and you are selling a quality product .
 

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The reason I say not to pay much concern to the thermal efficiency of the turbo is because you are running an intercooler. The variations in thermal effeciency from the 46 to the 57 are probably very small. The intercooler has its own efficiency. I think regardless of whether you ran the 57 or the 46, your intake charge temperature would be relatively the same once it passes through the intercooler. I use to run the starion intercooler and could easily run 14-15 psi mid day in the houston summers. Talk about freakin hot. With the 46mm I was able to run 17 psi of boost and that was a limit because of pinging above that boost pressure. I could have backed off the timing a degree or two and uped the boost to 18 or 19. When I went to the 57 mm, I was able to consistently run 18-19 psi on 93 octane pump gas. Now for the exhaust, the downpipe I have runs down to where it becomes parallel with the ground. I use to run the 3 down pipe into a straight 2.5 exhaust with no muffler. The car sounded mean. The restriction from going 3 to 2.5 creates some hp robbing backpressure. I would recommend going straight 3 into a straight through 3-3.5 muffler, borla or sebring. The sounds should be tame, but this will give you awesome boost response and more hp under full boost. Also, what kind of setup do you currently have, block, internals, head, etc.
 

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> Actually when air is compressed by a turbo
> there is heat created just by compression,
> and heat created by turbulence . The
> roundish shapes on the compressor map refer
> to adiabatic effeciency or ( 100% means no
> heat is produced due to turbulence ). Now if
> we compare to compressor maps in mass air
> flow (what it should be not volume). Example
> compare at 12 psi boost for the 46mm and
> 57mm .
> 1) Pick a temp for air 70F
> 2) Calc the volume of air needed for 2.8l at
> 6500rpm
> 3) Convert to mass flow in lb/hr
> 4) Compare the eff of both turbines at that
> same boost and mass airflow .
> This can be done for a number of differnt of
> points and change the rpm .
> I actually did all this stuff in EXCEL with
> an intercooler . It took away alot of the
> Hocus Pocus of turbo selection . Now I do
> not claim to know everything about this but
> I know the basics.
> If you go to Ray Hall he has a java applet
> TURBO MAPS and it is very easy to use . You
> can actually compare to compressor maps for
> your engine and see which one is more
> effecient at a given boost and rpm level . I
> hope we can talk more on this subject .
> Practical experience is probably more useful
> in this situation, because there are many
> things that can't be measured . These things
> give a closer starting point work with . I
> am probably going to buy the turbo from you,
> since you have been helpfull and you are
> selling a quality product .

hi, Clint

i asked the shop where my turbo was installed about it and they told me it is a turbonetics t3/t4 stage 3 turbine .63 AR with a super H compressor wheel. what can your research tell me about power potential of this unit?

Tim 78 turbo
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
> The reason I say not to pay much concern to
> the thermal efficiency of the turbo is
> because you are running an intercooler. The
> variations in thermal effeciency from the 46
> to the 57 are probably very small. The
> intercooler has its own efficiency. I think
> regardless of whether you ran the 57 or the
> 46, your intake charge temperature would be
> relatively the same once it passes through
> the intercooler. I use to run the starion
> intercooler and could easily run 14-15 psi
> mid day in the houston summers. Talk about
> freakin hot. With the 46mm I was able to run
> 17 psi of boost and that was a limit because
> of pinging above that boost pressure. I
> could have backed off the timing a degree or
> two and uped the boost to 18 or 19. When I
> went to the 57 mm, I was able to
> consistently run 18-19 psi on 93 octane pump
> gas. Now for the exhaust, the downpipe I
> have runs down to where it becomes parallel
> with the ground. I use to run the 3
> down pipe into a straight 2.5 exhaust
> with no muffler. The car sounded mean. The
> restriction from going 3 to 2.5
> creates some hp robbing backpressure. I
> would recommend going straight 3 into
> a straight through 3-3.5
> muffler, borla or sebring. The sounds should
> be tame, but this will give you awesome
> boost response and more hp under full boost.
> Also, what kind of setup do you currently
> have, block, internals, head, etc.
Yes very good points indeed, the 46mm turbo is meant for 14-15 past this point the effeciency starts to drop off . The 57mm does a better advantage above this . The 57mm has a low surge line compared to the 50mm which is a bonus and it has greater flow capabilties win win in that catagory . I currently have 78 motor N47 head which is getting yanked and replaced with a 81 L28ET F54 block P90 head stock cam . I have MSD 6A ignition, and 3 Suppertrapp stainless(somehow I knew turbo was destined).The suppertapp sounds like mid 60 ferrari, a little loud but you can adjust that with the plates . I have installed a 3.7 LSD and toyota calipers . Get LSD it is worth it . The 81 motor is from a junker with 70k miles wow, so I will do valve job and check the rest over and let her go . The efi system is from the zxt as well . By the way it was -37F today hows that for intercooling, my Pathfinder didn't skip a beat .
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
>I use to run the Starion
> intercooler and could easily run 14-15 psi
> mid day in the Houston summers. Talk about
> freakin hot.

Houston eh? I am in Houston and am in process of building a Turbo motor for my 280Z. And I have many questions about setup stuff. I am getting my motor from Doug @ HiTech automotive on 59. Some of my question are based around Starion intercooler installation and ECU setups. Perhaps I can steal you away for a afternoon and talk shop over a couple of beers. I am in the very early stages of the Boost conversion and would like some experienced help before getting too deep. Anyway I hope to hear from you.

John Cooney

Bean Bandit

H-281-304-0698

W-281-927-3032
 

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Re: question for Bean bandit

> Houston eh? I am in Houston and am in
> process of building a Turbo motor for my
> 280Z. And I have many questions about setup
> stuff. I am getting my motor from Doug @
> HiTech automotive on 59. Some of my question
> are based around Starion intercooler
> installation and ECU setups. Perhaps I can
> steal you away for a afternoon and talk shop
> over a couple of beers. I am in the very
> early stages of the Boost conversion and
> would like some experienced help before
> getting too deep. Anyway I hope to hear from
> you.

> John Cooney

> Bean Bandit

> H-281-304-0698

> W-281-927-3032

hi, John

if you think it might be worth the trip up to D/FW, the setup you are looking for is at alamo autosport in Arlington. i was looking at it on a Z last night when i was there. they are working on that car right now, so everything is in plain sight.
 

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Re: question for Bean bandit

Who's car were you looking at? Was it Steve (Stealth)'s car? What color was the car? ORange with fender flares? Just curious.
Joshua L.
 

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Re: question for Bean bandit

> Who's car were you looking at? Was it Steve
> (Stealth)'s car? What color was the car?
> ORange with fender flares? Just curious.
> Joshua L.

No, Joshua. i know Steve's car very well. his was the car he gave me a ride in to sell the turbo idea for my car. and i lived to tell about it!! the car i was looking at the other night is right next to the dyno. it is a stripped out 240 white interior customers car. Steve's car uses a cartech intercooler (sized about like those corky builds for the mustang 5.0's). this 240 has a starion intercooler with a blitz blow-off piped in. the owner has done a lot of his own work on the 280 turbo conversion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Re: question for Bean bandit

Hey, Sorry I didn't respond before, DFW would be hard to do right now. I am getting my motor this weekend and starting on the lowend of it. My current motor has blown valve seals, among other things, and I NEED to get the new motor ready. Hopefully someone will post pics of a Starion installation. But thanks. I just don't have the ability to travel now...

Bean Bandit
 
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