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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
You wrote:
>I did the Toyota 4X4 conversion on my '77.
>The only thing other than the calipers was
>some new standard vented (not cross-drilled) rotors

Where did you get the vented rotors from? Do 77's have stock vented rotors? Are they the same diameter as a 240Z? Will they mount on a 240 hub and use the 4X4 calipers?

Mike
 

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I'm game too!

The vented rotors did not come stock on a 77 Z. Where did this guy get the vented rotors, and do they bolt up directly to the Z car's hub, or do you have to buy a new set of rotors with hubs from another vehicle?? Also, what year Toyota 4X4 are the calipers from??

Thanks!

Tim McGovern
78 280Z

> You wrote:

> Where did you get the vented rotors from? Do
> 77's have stock vented rotors? Are they the
> same diameter as a 240Z? Will they mount on
> a 240 hub and use the 4X4 calipers?

> Mike
 

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Four piston calipers answers

Mike,
Hey guy - Went down to a local Auto Zone (Chief) auto parts store - bought a pair of vented (not cross-drilled)rotors and a pair of calipers, with pads, for a 1979-1983 Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Whole bill came to about $150. Again, the only modification required was cutting away some of the dust shield to accomodate the larger calipers.
WARNING: These calipers do not fit all 14 wheels. They cleared my aftermarket 14x6 Shelby Mags by only .060. Recommend having at least 15 wheels or be forewarned you may have to put the old calipers back on.
I now am running 16x7 and no Tribble at all.
As far as 280Z, not ZX, brakes fitting 240's that is a simple question for the same parts store. If the same part numbers are used - they will fit. I never had the occaision to look into it myself.
Phantom
 

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OK, but did the rotors.....

Did the rotors you bought bolt up to the Z car hubs, or did you have to buy the hubs with the rotors that came for the Toyota?? Judging by the price, you probably just bought the rotors and bolted them up to the stock Z car hubs. Can you shed some light on this oh Phantom??

Thanks!

Tim McGovern
78 280Z

> Mike,
> Hey guy - Went down to a local Auto Zone
> (Chief) auto parts store - bought a pair of
> vented (not cross-drilled)rotors and a pair
> of calipers, with pads, for a 1979-1983
> Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Whole bill came to about
> $150. Again, the only
> modification required was
> cutting away some of the dust shield to
> accomodate the larger calipers.
> WARNING: These calipers do not fit all
> 14 wheels. They cleared my aftermarket
> 14x6 Shelby Mags by only .060.
> Recommend having at least 15 wheels or
> be forewarned you may have to put the old
> calipers back on.
> I now am running 16x7 and no
> Tribble at all.
> As far as 280Z, not ZX, brakes fitting 240's
> that is a simple question for the same parts
> store. If the same part numbers are used -
> they will fit. I never had the occaision to
> look into it myself.
> Phantom
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Four piston calipers answers

> Mike,
> Hey guy - Went down to a local Auto Zone
> (Chief) auto parts store - bought a pair of
> vented (not cross-drilled)rotors and a pair
> of calipers, with pads, for a 1979-1983
> Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Whole bill came to about
> $150. Again, the only
> modification required was
> cutting away some of the dust shield to
> accomodate the larger calipers.
> WARNING: These calipers do not fit all
> 14 wheels. They cleared my aftermarket
> 14x6 Shelby Mags by only .060.
> Recommend having at least 15 wheels or
> be forewarned you may have to put the old
> calipers back on.
> I now am running 16x7 and no
> Tribble at all.
> As far as 280Z, not ZX, brakes fitting 240's
> that is a simple question for the same parts
> store. If the same part numbers are used -
> they will fit. I never had the occaision to
> look into it myself.
> Phantom

Are you saying that the rotors and calipers from a Toyota 4X4 will fit a Z hub?
 

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A little advice

> Mike,
> Hey guy - Went down to a local Auto Zone
> (Chief) auto parts store - bought a pair of
> vented (not cross-drilled)rotors and a pair
> of calipers, with pads, for a 1979-1983
> Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Whole bill came to about
> $150. Again, the only
> modification required was
> cutting away some of the dust shield to
> accomodate the larger calipers.
> WARNING: These calipers do not fit all
> 14 wheels. They cleared my aftermarket
> 14x6 Shelby Mags by only .060.
> Recommend having at least 15 wheels or
> be forewarned you may have to put the old
> calipers back on.
> I now am running 16x7 and no
> Tribble at all.
> As far as 280Z, not ZX, brakes fitting 240's
> that is a simple question for the same parts
> store. If the same part numbers are used -
> they will fit. I never had the occaision to
> look into it myself.
> Phantom

Well, 280ZX rotors are vented, but are only 10.0 diameter, compared to the 10.9 diameter of the stock solid rotor on the 240Z-280Z. Since the ZX rotors are vented, they do offer superior cooling, but a smaller diamter rotor will affect brake torque, which will reduce braking ability. The ZX rotor will hold up better under harsher conditions, such as repeated hard stops, but will not provide as much initial stopping power that a stock 10.9 solid rotor would.

Think of it like this: Turn a wheel, and then try to stop it. First stop it by applying pressure on the outer diameter. Then spin it again, and try to stop it in the same amount of time that it took to stop it the first time by applying pressure near the center of the wheel. Notice how much more pressure you had to apply to the wheel when you were trying to stop it from the center as opposed to the outer circumference?? This is basically what happens with braking. This is why aftermarket brake kits almost always offer larger diameter rotors. It is just a matter of mechanical advantage.

My recommendation to you is not to upgrade unless you are encountering overly heated brakes. Remember alot of ITS racing 240Z's have to use the stock rotors for every race, and they seem to hold up pretty well. Of course, if you had the same diamter rotor with vents, it would be much better. But, If you are not driving your car 80mph and having to brake hard for turns, I don't know if it's really worth the upgrade to the vented rotors, because you are actually losing brake torque for heat dissipation. In daily driving, you're just not going to heat the stock rotors up enough to warrant the swap. If you are concerned about heat with stock rotors, you can get cross-drilled, which hold up pretty well on solid rotors, compared to cross-drilled vented rotors.

On a side note, the hubs on 240Z are 17mm and the hubs for 280Z are 25mm, so there might be some spacing issues that need to be addressed when installing the 280ZX rotor. I don't know what the hat and hub on 280ZX measure, but you might want to check this out before bolting parts onto your car. You want the center (this means the center of the thickness) of the 280ZX rotor to have the same center as the 240Z rotor. As far as the calipers are concerned, the Toyota 4x4 calipers will physically bolt on with no modifications, except for the cutting or removal of the dustshield. I have these S8 calipers on my 240Z with stock rotors. All you have to do is remove the dustshield, and bolt them on.

Note: Toyota 4x4 calipers come in two types, there is a S8 and S8W. The S8 is for solid rotors, and the S8W is for vented rotors. They use the same pads and hardware, and are both 4-piston.

Just my .02
240Dave
 

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A little advice

> Mike,
> Hey guy - Went down to a local Auto Zone
> (Chief) auto parts store - bought a pair of
> vented (not cross-drilled)rotors and a pair
> of calipers, with pads, for a 1979-1983
> Toyota 4x4 pick-up. Whole bill came to about
> $150. Again, the only
> modification required was
> cutting away some of the dust shield to
> accomodate the larger calipers.
> WARNING: These calipers do not fit all
> 14 wheels. They cleared my aftermarket
> 14x6 Shelby Mags by only .060.
> Recommend having at least 15 wheels or
> be forewarned you may have to put the old
> calipers back on.
> I now am running 16x7 and no
> Tribble at all.
> As far as 280Z, not ZX, brakes fitting 240's
> that is a simple question for the same parts
> store. If the same part numbers are used -
> they will fit. I never had the occaision to
> look into it myself.
> Phantom

Well, 280ZX rotors are vented, but are only 10.0 diameter, compared to the 10.9 diameter of the stock solid rotor on the 240Z-280Z. Since the ZX rotors are vented, they do offer superior cooling, but a smaller diamter rotor will affect brake torque, which will reduce braking ability. The ZX rotor will hold up better under harsher conditions, such as repeated hard stops, but will not provide as much initial stopping power that a stock 10.9 solid rotor would.

Think of it like this: Turn a wheel, and then try to stop it. First stop it by applying pressure on the outer diameter. Then spin it again, and try to stop it in the same amount of time that it took to stop it the first time by applying pressure near the center of the wheel. Notice how much more pressure you had to apply to the wheel when you were trying to stop it from the center as opposed to the outer circumference?? This is basically what happens with braking. This is why aftermarket brake kits almost always offer larger diameter rotors. It is just a matter of mechanical advantage.

My recommendation to you is not to upgrade unless you are encountering overly heated brakes. Remember alot of ITS racing 240Z's have to use the stock rotors for every race, and they seem to hold up pretty well. Of course, if you had the same diamter rotor with vents, it would be much better. But, If you are not driving your car 80mph and having to brake hard for turns, I don't know if it's really worth the upgrade to the vented rotors, because you are actually losing brake torque for heat dissipation. In daily driving, you're just not going to heat the stock rotors up enough to warrant the swap. If you are concerned about heat with stock rotors, you can get cross-drilled, which hold up pretty well on solid rotors, compared to cross-drilled vented rotors.

On a side note, the hubs on 240Z are 17mm and the hubs for 280Z are 25mm, so there might be some spacing issues that need to be addressed when installing the 280ZX rotor. I don't know what the hat and hub on 280ZX measure, but you might want to check this out before bolting parts onto your car. You want the center (this means the center of the thickness) of the 280ZX rotor to have the same center as the 240Z rotor. As far as the calipers are concerned, the Toyota 4x4 calipers will physically bolt on with no modifications, except for the cutting or removal of the dustshield. I have these S8 calipers on my 240Z with stock rotors. All you have to do is remove the dustshield, and bolt them on.

Note: Toyota 4x4 calipers come in two types, there is a S8 and S12W. The S8 is for solid rotors, and the S12W is for vented rotors. They use the same pads and hardware, and are both 4-piston.

Just my .02
240Dave
 

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So Dave...

You have the S8 calipers on your car, but using the stock Z rotors?? That is the route I wish to go. If the Toyota rotors were 10.9in that would be one thing, but I don't think they are. I want to do a direct bolt on using the stock rotors (that I JUST bought brand new) and call it good. From what I can infer from your post, that is the way you have it set up.

Thanks again

Tim

> Well, 280ZX rotors are vented, but are only
> 10.0 diameter, compared to the
> 10.9 diameter of the stock solid rotor
> on the 240Z-280Z. Since the ZX rotors are
> vented, they do offer superior cooling, but
> a smaller diamter rotor will affect brake
> torque, which will reduce braking ability.
> The ZX rotor will hold up better under
> harsher conditions, such as repeated hard
> stops, but will not provide as much initial
> stopping power that a stock 10.9 solid
> rotor would.

> Think of it like this: Turn a wheel, and
> then try to stop it. First stop it by
> applying pressure on the outer diameter.
> Then spin it again, and try to stop it in
> the same amount of time that it took to stop
> it the first time by applying pressure near
> the center of the wheel. Notice how much
> more pressure you had to apply to the wheel
> when you were trying to stop it from the
> center as opposed to the outer
> circumference?? This is basically what
> happens with braking. This is why
> aftermarket brake kits almost always offer
> larger diameter rotors. It is just a matter
> of mechanical advantage.

> My recommendation to you is not to upgrade
> unless you are encountering overly heated
> brakes. Remember alot of ITS racing 240Z's
> have to use the stock rotors for every race,
> and they seem to hold up pretty well. Of
> course, if you had the same diamter rotor
> with vents, it would be much better. But, If
> you are not driving your car 80mph and
> having to brake hard for turns, I don't know
> if it's really worth the upgrade to the
> vented rotors, because you are actually
> losing brake torque for heat dissipation. In
> daily driving, you're just not going to heat
> the stock rotors up enough to warrant the
> swap. If you are concerned about heat with
> stock rotors, you can get cross-drilled,
> which hold up pretty well on solid rotors,
> compared to cross-drilled vented rotors.

> On a side note, the hubs on 240Z are 17mm
> and the hubs for 280Z are 25mm, so there
> might be some spacing issues that need to be
> addressed when installing the 280ZX rotor. I
> don't know what the hat and hub on 280ZX
> measure, but you might want to check this
> out before bolting parts onto your car. You
> want the center (this means the center of
> the thickness) of the 280ZX rotor to have
> the same center as the 240Z rotor. As far as
> the calipers are concerned, the Toyota 4x4
> calipers will physically bolt on with no
> modifications, except for the cutting or
> removal of the dustshield. I have these S8
> calipers on my 240Z with stock rotors. All
> you have to do is remove the dustshield, and
> bolt them on.

> Note: Toyota 4x4 calipers come in two types,
> there is a S8 and S12W. The S8 is for solid
> rotors, and the S12W is for vented rotors.
> They use the same pads and hardware, and are
> both 4-piston.

> Just my .02
> 240Dave
 

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Re: So Dave...

> You have the S8 calipers on your car, but
> using the stock Z rotors?? That is the route
> I wish to go. If the Toyota rotors were
> 10.9in that would be one thing, but I don't
> think they are. I want to do a direct bolt
> on using the stock rotors (that I JUST
> bought brand new) and call it good. From
> what I can infer from your post, that is the
> way you have it set up.

> Thanks again

> Tim

You got it. That's the exact setup on my car. I would recommend some semi-metallic pads also.

By the way, the Toyota rotors are for a six lugs, (trucks use more than 4 lugs for load bearing reasons) so I don't think they'll work, unless you drilled holes in them or something. Then you'd also be back to the spacing issue again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
That's what I thought!

> You got it. That's the exact setup on my
> car. I would recommend some semi-metallic
> pads also.

> By the way, the Toyota rotors are for a six
> lugs, (trucks use more than 4 lugs for load
> bearing reasons) so I don't think they'll
> work, unless you drilled holes in them or
> something. Then you'd also be back to the
> spacing issue again.

I didn't think Phantom was using vented Toyota rotors, thats why I was asking,I never heard of that. Thanks for clearing that up! By the way I've heard of someone using '88 Toyota 4 Runner calipers? Do you know if these are the same as '79 to '83?
Mike
 

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Four piston calipers - let's try again

I'll go once more and try to be a bit more precise.
My '77 280Z has stock 280Z rotors on it. Oops - they are solid, not vented. It's been too long and evidently I've lapsed into wishful thinking.
It also has the 79-83 Toyota 4x4 pick-up calipers on it. You must use brakes from that year range and they must be for the four wheel drive version.
The difference in braking power available - especially with 225/50HR16's is significant - the first time. The car still has stock drums on the rear so multiple stops start evidencing some noticable fade due to the inferior heat rejection of the drums.
As I said before, my experience is with 280Z's.
Not one to give up easily I'd confirm rotor diameters and thickness.
Phantom
 

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Not the same

> I didn't think Phantom was using vented
> Toyota rotors, thats why I was asking,I
> never heard of that. Thanks for clearing
> that up! By the way I've heard of someone
> using '88 Toyota 4 Runner calipers? Do you
> know if these are the same as '79 to '83?
> Mike

The Toyota 4-Runner calipers are the S12W type, so they are for vented rotors. That means they are NOT the same as the '79-'83. Outside dimensions of the two are virtually identical, except the S12W is wider to accomodate the larger thickness of the vented rotors. If you used these on a solid rotor, the pistons in the caliper would be sticking out too far, when you apply the brakes, and you would most likely have problems with leakage.

Note: A word of caution is that not all wheels will clear these calipers. 15 and above will almost certainly fit, but any wheel less than 15 might have interference problems.
 

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Not sure, but maybe this...??

> This has been a good discussion, but to go
> back to the original post, Does it work for
> a 280ZX?

> Thanks
> Ct..

I don't know for sure. From what I've gathered at junkyards and such, is that the ZX calipers have threaded holes in them, with the bolt passing THROUGH the mounting holes on the strut. This is the exact oppposite of the Z caliper, which is not threaded, because the strut itself is threaded. If you drilled out the holes in the strut, so they would be clearance holes(like a Z car), and then tapped the calipers, then maybe it can be bolted on. Mind you, this would be a little difficult, as trying to drill and tap cast iron is risky business, especially for the inexperienced. Post a solution, if you can find one, as I don't know for sure.

Maybe you could upgrade to a 300ZX Turbo caliper and 10.9 vented '84 300ZX 4 bolt rotor instead??? The caliper should have a similar bolt pattern and be mounted in the same way as the 280ZX version. It is larger and of a fixed type, rather than floating. The 4 bolt rotor should bolt onto your hub, except the offset might not be right. But, with some spacers, you might be able to get this to work. The 300ZX has more in common with the 280ZX suspension/brake wise than the 240-280. This would be a good upgrade for a 280ZX in my opinion. A 280ZX is kind of a hybrid to me, in that it has a suspension similar to the 300ZX (&510), but the engine is an L series, and the Body is a stretched out 280Z. So, you should be able to swap parts between the early Z cars and the 300ZX pretty easily. Let us know if any of this works.
 

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Re: Not sure, but maybe this...??

> I don't know for sure. From what I've
> gathered at junkyards and such, is that the
> ZX calipers have threaded holes in them,
> with the bolt passing THROUGH the mounting
> holes on the strut. This is the exact
> oppposite of the Z caliper, which is not
> threaded, because the strut itself is
> threaded. If you drilled out the holes in
> the strut, so they would be clearance
> holes(like a Z car), and then tapped the
> calipers, then maybe it can be bolted on.
> Mind you, this would be a little difficult,
> as trying to drill and tap cast iron is
> risky business, especially for the
> inexperienced. Post a solution, if you can
> find one, as I don't know for sure.

> Maybe you could upgrade to a 300ZX Turbo
> caliper and 10.9 vented '84 300ZX 4
> bolt rotor instead??? The caliper should
> have a similar bolt pattern and be mounted
> in the same way as the 280ZX version. It is
> larger and of a fixed type, rather than
> floating. The 4 bolt rotor should bolt onto
> your hub, except the offset might not be
> right. But, with some spacers, you might be
> able to get this to work. The 300ZX has more
> in common with the 280ZX suspension/brake
> wise than the 240-280. This would be a good
> upgrade for a 280ZX in my opinion. A 280ZX
> is kind of a hybrid to me, in that it has a
> suspension similar to the 300ZX (&510), but
> the engine is an L series, and the Body is a
> stretched out 280Z. So, you should be able
> to swap parts between the early Z cars and
> the 300ZX pretty easily. Let us know if any
> of this works.

I've got the '85 Turbo breaks on my 280ZX. Pretty much a bolt on accessory it looks like. Give me a little while, and I'll post what it take to do the conversion. The guy who owned the car before me did the conversion, so I'll ask him about it. The breaks on my car are SOOOOOOOO much better than any other Z I'v ever driven.

I'll be back.

Chris behney
Redline Autosports
 

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Re: Not sure, but maybe this...??

Ok just to clear this up (and I'm going from memory of a website on this) You can use 88 4runner calipers on an early Z (not ZX) and you can use 84 300ZX vented rotors with these calipers, and it works fine, But, you have to have a spacer made in order for this to work (goes between hub and rotor) otherwise I believe it's a pretty much bolt on affair. I think the conversion info is on Bob Hanvey's Site, but I'm going from memory on this one. As for the ZX stuff I haven't heard of any thing interchangeable, but if Chris says the 300zx stuff is bolt on I'll take his word for it.
 

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Re: Here is the site address.

> Ok just to clear this up (and I'm going from
> memory of a website on this) You can use 88
> 4runner calipers on an early Z (not ZX) and
> you can use 84 300ZX vented rotors with
> these calipers, and it works fine, But, you
> have to have a spacer made in order for this
> to work (goes between hub and rotor)
> otherwise I believe it's a pretty much bolt
> on affair.

Your summation is correct.

>I think the conversion info is on
> Bob Hanvey's Site,

Yes it is, under my index stuff, it is called The Vented Rotor Conversion page.
Right now, i have just the basic write up by Stephen Moffett, and some comments of my own. I have not put together the comments from the mailing lists as it indicates at the top of the page. Sorry, I have been kept fairly busy lately. Just as my head page is down for a rewrite, and will include some info not out there before. I'll let you know when it is back up,(the head page). Anyways, the link is below.
 
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