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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys

I wondered why I havent heard of any people that had tried to SUPERCOOL their intercooler by connecting a A/C to the cooler making it possible to get a delta T that is negative wich would enable a higher boost preasure. I will sit down one of these days and make some calculations on the gain possible by this operation. To do these calculations I need some values for the efficiensy of an A/C.

If somebody has tried an found there was no gain in power then please warn me before i get in to the books.

The reason isthat one of my friends is an engineer at a company that makes cooling towers - BIG intercoolers - and they have just invested in a new maschine that enables them to make small intercoolers as well(air water).
Now i just have to figure out how big i need it to be??.

And should I experiment with SUPERCOOL or should I just make it conventional, anyway I would like if somebody could give me the measurements for an air water cooler that they have purchased for a Z and work out from there.

Brian Madsen
Coolest man in town
 

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> Hey guys

> I wondered why I havent heard of any people
> that had tried to SUPERCOOL their
> intercooler by connecting a A/C to the
> cooler making it possible to get a delta T
> that is negative wich would enable a higher
> boost preasure. I will sit down one of these
> days and make some calculations on the gain
> possible by this operation. To do these
> calculations I need some values for the
> efficiensy of an A/C.

> If somebody has tried an found there was no
> gain in power then please warn me before i
> get in to the books.

> The reason isthat one of my friends is an
> engineer at a company that makes cooling
> towers - BIG intercoolers - and they have
> just invested in a new maschine that enables
> them to make small intercoolers as well(air
> water).
> Now i just have to figure out how big i need
> it to be??.

> And should I experiment with SUPERCOOL or
> should I just make it conventional, anyway I
> would like if somebody could give me the
> measurements for an air water cooler that
> they have purchased for a Z and work out
> from there.

> Brian Madsen
> Coolest man in town
I have a air to water intercooler for my 280zx .It bolts directly to the intake ,and it uses the factory u-bend from the metal pipe to get from the intercooler to the manifold.The main body of intercooler measures 10in long by 3 3/4 in wide by 6 inches high .It has 2in inlet and outlet.hope this helps you. If you need more info e-mail me at [email protected] Jason
 

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Why not SUPERCOOL? because ac draws power

I've never had a turbo, but it seems to me your net gain would be zero, since you'd have to draw power from the engine to drive A/C compressor. You may even lose power if you can't cool the intake air enough to compensate for the compressor power draw.

Just my $0.2, but good luck. Maybe you've hit on something.

Alex

> I have a air to water intercooler for my
> 280zx .It bolts directly to the intake ,and
> it uses the factory u-bend from the metal
> pipe to get from the intercooler to the
> manifold.The main body of intercooler
> measures 10in long by 3 3/4 in wide by 6
> inches high .It has 2in inlet and
> outlet.hope this helps you. If you need more
> info e-mail me at [email protected] Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #4
SuperCool idea, Think about this....

Ok, I play around with a lot of different technologies, something you might want to consider in your quest is getting away from mechanical A/C cooling. I have played with some really cool alloys, when you apply current to them the get cold, real cold, real fast. And they are getting CHEAP! All the stuff I have used runs on 12v DC (Used to cool very hot supercomputers) If this does not look like a solution for you, to avoid robbing power from the engine via the AC pump, look at a electric job off a RV, they a very efficient and not too expensive. Now what we are talking about is a VERY HIGH BOOST motor. A good air to water lets you PUSH 15lbs, 13-14 solid. So SuperCooling would allow for more boost, but the rest of the motor would have to be able to feed it fuel and anti-detonation. In something that loaded it would only take once to send a rod into orbit... Good luck and if I can help I would love too. :)

John Cooney
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Re: SUPERCOOL- Some setup considerations

> Ok, I play around with a lot of different
> technologies, something you might want to
> consider in your quest is getting away from
> mechanical A/C cooling. I have played with
> some really cool alloys, when you apply
> current to them the get cold, real cold,
> real fast. And they are getting CHEAP! All
> the stuff I have used runs on 12v DC (Used
> to cool very hot supercomputers) If this
> does not look like a solution for you, to
> avoid robbing power from the engine via the
> AC pump, look at a electric job off a RV,
> they a very efficient and not too expensive.
> Now what we are talking about is a VERY HIGH
> BOOST motor. A good air to water lets you
> PUSH 15lbs, 13-14 solid. So SuperCooling
> would allow for more boost, but the rest of
> the motor would have to be able to feed it
> fuel and anti-detonation. In something that
> loaded it would only take once to send a rod
> into orbit... Good luck and if I can help I
> would love too. :)

> John Cooney

Thanks for contributing to one of my projects!!

I haven't had time to make the calculus yet, and in order to do it I need to know about the efficiency of the cooling media. It is of course preferable to use the cooling media with the highest cooling efficiency to avoid wasting power up in the air.
I've been dooing a lot of thinking about this project, and I've come up with two different setups:
1. A setup where you cool down a water and glucol solution to sub zerro temp and then only use the cooling capasity when needed (WOT) by a boost preasure regulated valve/pump.
2. A setup where you cool all the time and try to keep the water-glycol sulution as cold as possible, and adjust your max boost preasure accordigly, and if your cooler(A/C, RV? other) is going out of capasity then switch to normal air/water intercooling.

Both systems will allow you to really kick ass in the initial acceleration. It is not often that I need POWER during a long period (I don't race yet)
but I really LOVE the feeling of beeing pushed back in my seat until the springs in it makes marks on my back!

If you could send me a data sheet on the really cool alloy that you are writing about then it would help a lot (efficiency calculations).

Thanks in advance

Brian Madsen

P.S there might be a problem with condensing water from the cooler, or even ice but every problem to its time.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This is Hugh....I have an 83 280 N-a that I am restoring. This is the first time I checked out this news page.

I just finished school for Mechanical eng'g and studied A LOT of thermodynamics, heat transfer, design of thermal systems, etc.
I know you can figure out in advance how a system reacts in different configurations.
Especially now with all the computer equation solvers and thermo simulator apps...

I don't know a great deal about turbos, intercoolers, etc for cars, but it seems simple enough, if you think about it.

I have though about using thermoelectric elements for an intercooler (possible, I don't doubt) etc. I use one of them muthas now in an Igloo 12VDC coolers, but they can't cool anything, only maintain a low temperature difference.

Call me insane, but I do all sorts of calculations like these for fun and wholesome quality home entertainment in my spare time!
I'll check out the post later to see if this gets anyones attention...

trying to hook up an AC condenser to a intercooler for a high pressure turbo might work as long as you make sure that the working fluid (R12, R134a, etc) will still condense at the elevated temperature from compressing the atmosphere in the turbo, prior to injection and engine compression. I would sacrifice my automatic climate control option for another 20 horsepower any day! (air-air intercooler)

I will look at My Hayes manual to check out how an air-water intercooler works... If it works on the engine cooling system fluid, a lower temperature thermostat may make a bit of difference as well, due to a greater Delta-T, or negative Q (heat transfer garble).

P.S. My Z-Car won't even turn over...new starter and solonoind, checked coil and wires, ...........Can't figure it out....Where is a good Z-repair shop In Portland OR??? or if you could pointme the right way.....Later guys!

> Hey guys

> I wondered why I havent heard of any people
> that had tried to SUPERCOOL their
> intercooler by connecting a A/C to the
> cooler making it possible to get a delta T
> that is negative wich would enable a higher
> boost preasure. I will sit down one of these
> days and make some calculations on the gain
> possible by this operation. To do these
> calculations I need some values for the
> efficiensy of an A/C.

> If somebody has tried an found there was no
> gain in power then please warn me before i
> get in to the books.

> The reason isthat one of my friends is an
> engineer at a company that makes cooling
> towers - BIG intercoolers - and they have
> just invested in a new maschine that enables
> them to make small intercoolers as well(air
> water).
> Now i just have to figure out how big i need
> it to be??.

> And should I experiment with SUPERCOOL or
> should I just make it conventional, anyway I
> would like if somebody could give me the
> measurements for an air water cooler that
> they have purchased for a Z and work out
> from there.

> Brian Madsen
> Coolest man in town
 
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