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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings once again,

The last time I wrote was about putting in my stock '76 280z n/a motor back into my 280z after discovering a problem with my Rebello stroker L28 rebuild last week. Well, the engine is in and the car is running. I have been driving it for about 5 days now it runs really well. Very smooth. I was concerned about putting my turbo on this motor because of possible detonation but it actually runs real strong and pulls hard with only 8 lbs of boost. However as you all know, I will not be able to run much more boost without killing pistions, so that kind of sucks, and I know the "speed/boost addiction bug is going to bite me sooner or later.
Nonetheless what is most important is my car is back on the street again.

The best thing about this swap is that I did the engine swap myself for the first time ever! and to my surprise, it was easy and much simpler than I had imagined. A friend of mine who did the first swap (rebello motor) was going to charge me, so I insisted on learning to do it myself... saving me money that I didn't have to begin with and getting the experience. Now I know I can do another engine change myself! I just need to go out and buy a hoist and some more tools!
This also gave me a chance to clean up my old motor and paint it pretty prior to installation.

If I would have had the time and money I would have gone out and got complete turbo motor, but time and money were not on my side. Besides, now the car once again has it's original N42 motor (70,000 miles) with a nice big turbo setup.
Thanks everybody on my last post who answered my Q's about running low/high boost turbo on my n/a motor.

Now I just need to fill and charge my AC system since I have completed installing a complete air conditioning system on my car which never had it to begin with.
This I did all myself too. I can't wait to see if it actually works. Hopefully it will.

Drive on!

Bon
[attachment 11642 l28.jpg]
 

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Hey, whatever works, right? Makes me want to slap my turbo and manifold on my N/A motor. 8lbs of boost should be plenty for awhile, so just have fun with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hey I even masked! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #6
bigbutt,

I am using my original n/a engine. N42 block, original stock pistons, orginal n42 head and cam. I've also got a different n42 intake that is ported and shaved all the way through. I use a BMW throttle body -it's either 60 mm or 70mm. Turbo AFM ported and shaved with stock n/a internals. Stock '76 ECU, wiring harness, and distributor (locked out @26 degrees total timing)
NGK plugs, custom MSD plug wires along with MSD box. Porsche fuel pump, 35 lb bosche injectors, 1/2 pushlock fuel line going all the way to the back, steel braded lines, custom fuel rail, aftermarket fuel filter and FPR. Aftermarket intercooler and piping, BMW blow-off valve, T3/T4 54 mm turbo, 46 mm wastegate, 3" downpipe, magnaflow 3" muffler and 3" steel basketball hoop pole for the exhaust pipe. The only other thing that is completely custom is the exhaust header. A friend of mine where I live builds the header himself and that's what he uses on all his turbo Z setups. I have a picture if you would like to see it.
No megasquirt on this car.

Hope this helps,

Bon
 

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Why is the world would you replace the fuel line with bigger (total waste of time), go with a T3/T4 turbo but then try to use a stock NA ECU?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
steves280 Wrote:
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> Why is the world would you replace the fuel line
> with bigger (total waste of time), go with a T3/T4
> turbo but then try to use a stock NA ECU?

because the turbo electronics are not needed. There is no reason to need to have the turbo ecu. The na works just fine. does the job just fine.
 

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"Works Fine" you say???

bonfire79 Wrote:
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> There is no reason to need to have the turbo ecu.
> The na works just fine. does the job just fine.

Perhaps this is why you can't run more than 8-12psi of boost?

That the N/A 'works fine' goes to your definition of 'works' and 'fine'...

My N42/N42 combo doesn't detonate at 21psi, so you may want to rethink how 'fine' that N/A is working out for ya!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Re: "Works Fine" you say???

Tony D Wrote:
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> bonfire79 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There is no reason to need to have the turbo
> ecu.
> > The na works just fine. does the job just
> fine.
>
> Perhaps this is why you can't run more than
> 8-12psi of boost?
>
> That the N/A 'works fine' goes to your definition
> of 'works' and 'fine'...
>
> My N42/N42 combo doesn't detonate at 21psi, so you
> may want to rethink how 'fine' that N/A is working
> out for ya!


okay. I am running 8 lbs of boost to start with on my n/a motor. I was running 12 on my other motor. Since I am new to turbos, 12 is what I wanted to start with and plus that motor had better pistons (J&E), so I would have been able to run alot more boost than 12 anyways. A friend of mine who builds and races Zcars, doesn't use any turbo electrical components on any of his cars. Hasn't used them for the last 20 years. -He's got the 10 second blue 280z turbo on youtube. My setup is exactly the same. The only thing turbo is the afm with n/a internals. and none of his setups have had problems in the last 20 years. So in this case why is it so necessary that I need all the turbo electrical stuff?
I will glady trade my turbo electrical components for the n/a stuff any day.
 

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And I say again..."Works Fine" you say???

If you are experiencing detonation above 12 psi, I posit your setup is NOT 'working fine'!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: And I say again..."Works Fine" you say???

Tony D Wrote:
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> If you are experiencing detonation above 12 psi, I
> posit your setup is NOT 'working fine'!

Tony, I never said I was experiencing detonation. The big bore motor didn't detonate. My stock motor is not detonating. I started out with 12 psi, I just never had a chance to turn up the boost because my motor bearings were bad and I had to take the engine out of the car.
According to what I found on this forum, I could have stayed at 12 psi with my old stock n/a motor (which is in the car now) but I chose to run 8 psi for now. I can up the boost if I want. You even stated that you could run up 21 psi on your n42 combo. I am not doubting that. Later on I can turn it up if I want. For now I choose not to. Like I said before, the boost bug will probably bite me later on.

Again, my setup is working fine.
 

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Your setups runs fine.....for cheap, back-woods engineering. Your setup would run better with the turbo ecu. It would be optimized if you used MS or another aftermarket EMS.

You spend money on a Rebello engine and then cheap-out where it REALLY counts. Great thinking.

Your thinking "it hasn't had a problem in 20 years" is poor at best. There are advancements made every year. Being able to control fuel and spark is a significant improvement over what was done 20 years ago.

You, and your friend, are giving up quite a bit of horsepower by sticking with OEM ECUs.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ktm,

just curious,
how fast is your Z horsepower wise?
 

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Perhaps...

Perhaps the better question is who is willing to drive THEIR car aross the country to do the drag strip comparo.

Things fast on the Drag Strip may not be the best functioning vehicles 'in the real world'...I believe several muscle car magazines predicate national tours on this fact these days.

In 1950, 60, 70 the only thing that mattered to most Muscle Car Enthusiasts was how fast their ride got down the track. That it overheated while sitting at a stop light was nothing that mattered to them.

Their defnintion of 'works' must be similar to yours bonfire!

You are arguing against physical and logical facts. If you think a cobbled together amalgam of 1960's vintage Bosch L-Jet Licensed parts is current state of the art, or delivers drivability and power of even the most basic MS unit using an outdated Motorola Processor, you're terribly misinformed.

There is a LOT more than going down the track in 10's.

Which you say someone you KNOW did, but not what YOU did.

I posit KTM's ride is on the road running and in a shape to whomp yours as it stands, so pulling 'fastest time' out your anal pore might not be the wisest tact to take at this point in time!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Re: Perhaps...

Tony D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Perhaps the better question is who is willing to
> drive THEIR car aross the country to do the drag
> strip comparo.
>
> Things fast on the Drag Strip may not be the best
> functioning vehicles 'in the real world'...I
> believe several muscle car magazines predicate
> national tours on this fact these days.
>
> In 1950, 60, 70 the only thing that mattered to
> most Muscle Car Enthusiasts was how fast their
> ride got down the track. That it overheated while
> sitting at a stop light was nothing that mattered
> to them.
>
> Their defnintion of 'works' must be similar to
> yours bonfire!
>
> You are arguing against physical and logical
> facts. If you think a cobbled together amalgam of
> 1960's vintage Bosch L-Jet Licensed parts is
> current state of the art, or delivers drivability
> and power of even the most basic MS unit using an
> outdated Motorola Processor, you're terribly
> misinformed.
>
> There is a LOT more than going down the track in
> 10's.
>
> Which you say someone you KNOW did, but not what
> YOU did.
>
> I posit KTM's ride is on the road running and in a
> shape to whomp yours as it stands, so pulling
> 'fastest time' out your anal pore might not be the
> wisest tact to take at this point in time!

Yes Tony,
I never said I had the fastest time. In Fact, I've never had a time.
I just wanted to know how fast ktm's car is, since it sounds like he uses all the stock turbo electronics on his setup.
For your information, Tony, I have never raced my car at the drag strip. Never raced period. My car is a daily driver, has been for 2 years. I drive it everyday. I have driven it across several states, been to several different zcar shows, AND have been thinking about DRIVING out to the West Coast Nationals, but I can't afford the time off or the money to do so, and by the way, I LIVE in North Carolina.
My friend who races and drives Z's daily, has been doing it for 20+ years, and all of his customers here in my area and the surrounding states have street ready, drivable Zcars AND they take 'em to the track as well as use them as daily drivers. These guys have stock turbo motors, no megasquirt, no NOS, no strokers or skyline motors. Now mine isn't as fast as theirs, but that was my choice. I can make it fast like those above if I choose to.
Now You show me somebody else out there who has an 8 - 10 second Z with a stock L28 Turbo motor AND is comfortable and dependable enough to give Grandma the keys and let her drive it to work everyday with no worries.... and hey I'll shut up.

Personally I could care less about track times and racing. Having a Z means alot more to me than that. KTM's car could woop me I'm sure, but I really don't care.
One of these days I might go to the track and change my mind completely, but until then, I don't really care about 'Fast times' and all the racing crap you were talking about.

Look, If I ever manage to make it out to SoCal for that big Zcar show, I will show you my setup. Like it or hate it. And If my engine blows up on the way out there, hey man, you'll be right and I'll be wrong. I can accept that.
But until that day, get off of my back.

Bon
 

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400+/400+ at the wheels with 22+ psi.

Bonfire, I am not using stock electronics by any means. I use the Wolf V500 EMS and have a sequential ignition and fuel setup. I am not trying to say that you are wrong, but using stock electronics is holding you back. You would be amazed at the performance increase as well as driveability improvement by opting for something like Megasquirt.

For instance, with Wolf I only need 1, yes 1, sensor to run the car. That's it. All of the other sensors are strictly for fuel and timing modifiers. The car does not go crazy if I do not run the other sensors.

I can control ignition timing PER cylinder. I am presently pulling timing in #5 and #6 to address their detonation characteristics. I set my own "timing curve", something you can not do with the stock ECU, be it turbo or N/A.

I set my own fuel map too and make sure that I am not running pig rich (loss of power, EGT issues, etc.) or too lean.

I would love to have a Rebello engine, but honestly, the state of tune of a car is much more important than the engine's displacement. Yes, you will make good power, but you are leaving quite a bit on the table and may still face problems with your "tune". Making AFM adjustments, etc., are all just "back-yard" attempts at changing the fuel map. If you are going through that trouble, just install a system that allows you to easily make the adjustment and set your own map.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you KTM, that's what I wanted to know.

I think you have a great setup. I really like how you can program and control your fuel/ignition settings to your desires. Believe it or not, I was going to get megasquirt for my motor from rebello, but they wanted $1000 for it... a thousand bucks. I decided not to get it. it's probably cheaper on ebay or something like that. Anyways, Your setup sounds very reliable and safe, but I don't want to ask how much money it cost. My car seems to run richer than I want it too and I would like to be able to control that better.
In reality getting the rebello motor was really a waste of money, like you said bigger is not always better. As it stands, my original motor is now running better than the rebuilt rebello motor did. I wish I would have just stuck with my original motor in the first place.... could've saved alot of money. Even though rebello is rebuilding me another motor (lifetime warranty) I really don't know what I am going to do with it.
I think the less sensors needed are the better. My setup has done away with most of the sensors and all the stuff that crowds the intake manifold... all those hoses, vacumm lines, etc... and it runs fine. That's how my friends' setups are. To him, getting all of this aftermarket fuel/ignition stuff is an expensive waste of money and is not really needed to get reliable 400+ horsepower. He is all about porting and getting air flow through the motor instead of fancy electronics, but that is his way of thinking and every man to his own I guess.

Have you seen his (fast franky) little blue 280z turbo on you tube? That video is now a few years old but currently that little blue car is now pushing 600 horses to the rear wheels. I mean it's rediculous. and it doesn't have any of the MS or haltech, NOS, etc. I am not disagreeing with what you have on your car, I'm just saying what he uses.

Hey do have any pics or vids of your 240? I would really like to see some if you do.

BTW, where are you located?

Bon
 
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