Although I have not used this exact product, I have used other hoses with similar fittings that get threaded onto the hose itself, some with steel reinforcement, some without. If the fitting is not installed properly, like all the way up to the top of the fitting as you thread it, the fluid, in this case gasoline, will leak around the inner part of the hose at the fitting and get between the hose and the nylon braid. Pressure eventually builds up and it will spring a leak. Just a possibility.
[email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
So the nylon hose I've been using in conjunction with my AN style lines split lengthwise below the nylon weave. This caused the hose to look like a venturi where its normal diameter - skinny - normal again. Called summit, they sent me a 3ft section to repair this problem. Replaced it tuesday after work, went for a test ride, sat yesterday, drove to work today. When I got home, smelled fuel again after it sat with the garage door closed for a little bit. Inspect the hose, and its fking collapsed again. Wtf? The other 3.5 foot of hose I have in the other parts of the fuel system is just fine. Spoke to summit's tech support and they said the AN fittings are straight forward and you couldnt screw up putting those on unless you cross thread them (which i didnt obviously =P). He said its probably a manufacturing defect in the hose, but twice from two separate orders?? What are you guy's thoughts? Its pretty easy to replace these lines, takes like 30 minutes to do so I'll go ahead and knock that out no problem when the new hose gets here, but I'm a little stumped why that happened. Heres a link to the hose in question:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-240606/
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-240606/
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Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
What brand of hose Lum? I have two lengths of nylon nose from SUmmit that i have not installed. I would appreciate it if you installed mine and had it fail so i could get my money back HA! ...no seriously
What brand of hose Lum? I have two lengths of nylon nose from SUmmit that i have not installed. I would appreciate it if you installed mine and had it fail so i could get my money back HA! ...no seriously
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
are you using lubrication when your putting the fittings in the hose?
are you using lubrication when your putting the fittings in the hose?
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
I'm not Jay, they go in easily I dont see any reason to... Vasoline on hand that i'll use this next time.
I'm not Jay, they go in easily I dont see any reason to... Vasoline on hand that i'll use this next time.
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
They sell a lube that is specifically for an lines/fittings. Russel Brand i beleive. It may not seem hard to push the fitting in, but maybe its catching somewhere somehow and thus creating a bind?
They sell a lube that is specifically for an lines/fittings. Russel Brand i beleive. It may not seem hard to push the fitting in, but maybe its catching somewhere somehow and thus creating a bind?
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
Lum...I still have some CF-reinforced FI hose left over. K.I.S.S.....
Lum...I still have some CF-reinforced FI hose left over. K.I.S.S.....
if Lum doesnt take it .. i would be interested Chris
Chris, they sent me another 6ft of this nylon hose. I'll lube it up for the install this time. We'll see how that goes and I may take you up on that.
Oh and Jim, I make sure to seat the hose all the way into the fitting.
Oh and Jim, I make sure to seat the hose all the way into the fitting.
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
Maybe it's just cheap Effing hose....( construction wise )
Mike
Maybe it's just cheap Effing hose....( construction wise )
Mike
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
Seems wierd that, at 350 psi rated, this hose wouldn't hold up. Good thing you didn't buy the Summit Racing Jacket at $146.
Seems wierd that, at 350 psi rated, this hose wouldn't hold up. Good thing you didn't buy the Summit Racing Jacket at $146.
and why again should one bother with AN fittings over regular "tube in, hose over, held together with clamp" fittings? 
At the bottom of the product sheet it says 30R7 hose. They say good for 350 psi and 275 degrees, but those numbers probably arent maximum at the same time; as T goes up P probably goes down and the permeability probably increases also. Think you have the wrong hose for fuel injection. Hunt for 30R9.
http://www.goodyearep.com/productsdetail.aspx?id=10526
http://www.gates.com/common/downloads/files/Gates/brochure/TechTipsForm.pdf
http://www.goodyearep.com/productsdetail.aspx?id=10526
http://www.gates.com/common/downloads/files/Gates/brochure/TechTipsForm.pdf
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
wait a second??? pressure is DEFINITELY not popping that one... even at 20 psi of boost the fuel wouldn't exceed 70 psi not even 1/5th the rated pressure...
wait a second??? pressure is DEFINITELY not popping that one... even at 20 psi of boost the fuel wouldn't exceed 70 psi not even 1/5th the rated pressure...
I don't think it's the pressure alone and burst rating is at ambient temp. I've been trying for a bit to find a T vs. P chart for hose but no luck yet. Maybe the failure location is at a hot spot.
The 30R7 spec is not recommended for fuel injection use.
Also, some hose is not recommended for AN fittings.
And if I read the topic correctly, the hose is collapsing, not swelling. It may be deteriorating from the fuel additives or heat and possibly stretching (including the nylon jacket which is the weakest part against T, I believe) if weakened by heat until a section (maybe in the center of the run) is being "stretch-collapsed" like pulling on your taffy.
Only thoughts.
The 30R7 spec is not recommended for fuel injection use.
Also, some hose is not recommended for AN fittings.
And if I read the topic correctly, the hose is collapsing, not swelling. It may be deteriorating from the fuel additives or heat and possibly stretching (including the nylon jacket which is the weakest part against T, I believe) if weakened by heat until a section (maybe in the center of the run) is being "stretch-collapsed" like pulling on your taffy.
Only thoughts.
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
The Russel hose i have looks and feels kinda cheap...thats one reason i haven't installed it. I cut it in two pieces getting ready for the install and then i came onto Lums post...
The Russel hose i have looks and feels kinda cheap...thats one reason i haven't installed it. I cut it in two pieces getting ready for the install and then i came onto Lums post...
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
dumbstone it says on the summit website that the rubber is a nitrile composite rubber, which is ideal for the handling of petroleum liquids. "This SAE 30R7 rated Summit® braided nylon hose is designed for use with gas, oil, diesel, and other fluid applications. It uses a higher grade nitrile inner core that is specifically compounded to hold a higher fuel resistance than any other black nylon hose product on the market"
I have another run of line that goes to the hard lines bolted to the fuel rail from the new FPR (Right next to the bmc) which is no more than 6 inches from a turbo. Havent had any issues with that hose. I'm leaning on manufacturing defect.
dumbstone it says on the summit website that the rubber is a nitrile composite rubber, which is ideal for the handling of petroleum liquids. "This SAE 30R7 rated Summit® braided nylon hose is designed for use with gas, oil, diesel, and other fluid applications. It uses a higher grade nitrile inner core that is specifically compounded to hold a higher fuel resistance than any other black nylon hose product on the market"
I have another run of line that goes to the hard lines bolted to the fuel rail from the new FPR (Right next to the bmc) which is no more than 6 inches from a turbo. Havent had any issues with that hose. I'm leaning on manufacturing defect.
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
Luminar, I don't have any argument with what you say and that is definitely a possibility.
My only comments would be that the liner may be fine for any fuel and that 30R9 hose may be thicker and have more reinforcement than 30R7, both of which would make the hose stronger at higher temperatures. The 30R7 may be fine for runs of fuel line to a carburetor at lower pressure, where the hose is not specifically next to hot items and would receive air flow from the radiator "exhaust".
The fluid operating temperature rating is for the liner. Due to the insulating properties of the hose wall, though minor, there would be a temperature drop through the wall and the lower temperature that would occur in the woven reinforcement layer and on the skin of the hose in standard ambient air would maintain some strength. In the case of hose in an engine compartment the fuel probably acts as a coolant for the hose assembly but the skin temperature is high. With the Summit nylon outer covering I would suspect that the strength is comprimised near hot engine areas with minimal air flow as some info on nylon suggests continuous operating temperature maximums of 175F and up to 250F, maximum.
Is the run of hose next to the BMC from the same batch, 30R7 or 30R9? And does the "BMC" hose have a rubber jacket or nylon?
No expert but trying to add a modicum of engineering.
Luminar, I don't have any argument with what you say and that is definitely a possibility.
My only comments would be that the liner may be fine for any fuel and that 30R9 hose may be thicker and have more reinforcement than 30R7, both of which would make the hose stronger at higher temperatures. The 30R7 may be fine for runs of fuel line to a carburetor at lower pressure, where the hose is not specifically next to hot items and would receive air flow from the radiator "exhaust".
The fluid operating temperature rating is for the liner. Due to the insulating properties of the hose wall, though minor, there would be a temperature drop through the wall and the lower temperature that would occur in the woven reinforcement layer and on the skin of the hose in standard ambient air would maintain some strength. In the case of hose in an engine compartment the fuel probably acts as a coolant for the hose assembly but the skin temperature is high. With the Summit nylon outer covering I would suspect that the strength is comprimised near hot engine areas with minimal air flow as some info on nylon suggests continuous operating temperature maximums of 175F and up to 250F, maximum.
Is the run of hose next to the BMC from the same batch, 30R7 or 30R9? And does the "BMC" hose have a rubber jacket or nylon?
No expert but trying to add a modicum of engineering.
Re: [email protected]#^&#(^ Freaking fuel hose split AGAIN!
That hose is the exact same nylon braided stuff. Thats the outer jacket, the inner jacket is the rubber hose. This is the same stuff i know other people to use for turbo feed lines etc. There is something wrong with the hose itself from a manufacturing fault. Summit said this hose was suitable for fuel injection and high but not extreme heat. Plus, you mean to tell me that the outer rubber of that hose is going to get to 150+ degrees with cool fuel running through it, the plenum surface gets hot yes, but not hot enough for that heat to transfer to the rubber line to get to 150+. Thats hot enough to feel significant heat. The other 2 pieces of hose have been there since the setup and are perfectly fine.
Dumbstone dont take this as me being argumentative I agree with your points completely. I just think its not too likely, a possibility yes, but not a very likely one.
That hose is the exact same nylon braided stuff. Thats the outer jacket, the inner jacket is the rubber hose. This is the same stuff i know other people to use for turbo feed lines etc. There is something wrong with the hose itself from a manufacturing fault. Summit said this hose was suitable for fuel injection and high but not extreme heat. Plus, you mean to tell me that the outer rubber of that hose is going to get to 150+ degrees with cool fuel running through it, the plenum surface gets hot yes, but not hot enough for that heat to transfer to the rubber line to get to 150+. Thats hot enough to feel significant heat. The other 2 pieces of hose have been there since the setup and are perfectly fine.
Dumbstone dont take this as me being argumentative I agree with your points completely. I just think its not too likely, a possibility yes, but not a very likely one.
And I have to agree with you completely, although a defective hose would worsen the effects of temp and press. I wasn't be argumentative either. Knowing it's the same hose clears up a lot.
As for the skin of the hose getting hot, it's going to see what temperature is around it and will stay at that temperature. The hose will get cooler through its thickness down to the temperature of the fuel on the ID. In between the temperature varies somewhat linearly (round walls act a little differently than flat walls which are perfectly linear).
Edit: Do a search on here in "all forums" for "30R9". There's multiple posts available.
I stand to correct myself a bit on the above, as to where the unfailed hose is located vs. the failed, as regards temperature and airflow.
Not to be obstinant, but when I see no other fuel hoses on Summit's site other than 30R7 configuration, I wonder. If I didn't say it before, the manufacturers like GoodYear, Gates and a couple of others specifically say 30R7 is not for use on multiport injection systems.
As for the skin of the hose getting hot, it's going to see what temperature is around it and will stay at that temperature. The hose will get cooler through its thickness down to the temperature of the fuel on the ID. In between the temperature varies somewhat linearly (round walls act a little differently than flat walls which are perfectly linear).
Edit: Do a search on here in "all forums" for "30R9". There's multiple posts available.
I stand to correct myself a bit on the above, as to where the unfailed hose is located vs. the failed, as regards temperature and airflow.
Not to be obstinant, but when I see no other fuel hoses on Summit's site other than 30R7 configuration, I wonder. If I didn't say it before, the manufacturers like GoodYear, Gates and a couple of others specifically say 30R7 is not for use on multiport injection systems.
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