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Discussion Starter #1
Has anyone had any experience with this on cars? I have on aluminum baseball bats. Cryo experts claim that it can improve performance of auto parts 3 to 5 times for wear. They claim that a Cryogenic motor can double your fuel mileage and last 600,000 to 1,000,000 miles. Many are doing brake rotors. Depending on costs, this is intriguing. I know that it makes a baseball travel about 20 ft farther, I would think it would have similar effects on an engine. It costs about $35 to Cryo a bat. If you could do an entire engine for less than $5000 and make it double it's life span, it would be worth it.
 

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i know ALL the BIG name drag racers all have it done!! i here its the hot ****!
 

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Yep I can confirm that. I cryo-tempred my engine and now I can hit it 20ft further as well. Its exactly like a baseball bat.


82-280zx-turbo: I think what he's talking about is cryotempring. This is where you take a metal object and slowly ramp the temperature down then back up. This causes the metal to contract and pack the atoms closer together. When it heats back up the atoms spread apart evenly and you get a more even distribution of atoms.

My guess is you can cryotemper things about the same size as a baseball bat for the same price as a bat. I don't really see a need to temper the block but it may be nice for the pistons, rods, and valves.


I have my own opinions on why spending extra money to make a car last 50 years instead of 10-20 is not a good idea but I'll keep them to my self.
 

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please enlighten me Takahashi. Why would you not want the car to last 50 years? If an engine's internal parts are able to last 400K+ without even bothering to pull the heads, why would it not be worth it. The only repais it would ned would be the 60K/120K services for 20 years! asie from the external engine stuff like hoses, etc. 5K is cheaper than replcing your engine (or overhauling) 2 or 3 times.
 

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Because I don't love my Z that much -- is one response!

;-)

LOL....
 

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Discussion Starter #8
David Hutchinson with his cryogenically enhanced hybrid Honda. (Photo: KFOR-TV-DT)


Americans guzzle 65 billion gallons of fuel a year and lately we have been paying a pretty penny at the pump. NewsChannel 4 has done reports in the past on how to get the most out of your gas. Now we introduce you to a new way to save on those gasoline dollars.

There is a man who fills up his tank once every two months. One tank of gas, literally, lasts him two months. He is freezing the price of gas by freezing something else.

People complain about the price of gas and we are all spending dearly to stay on the road these days. The money we spend on gas seems to burn up faster than the fuel.

While there may be little rhyme or reason to why the prices are on a perpetual roller-coaster, there is one man who has found a way to freeze them in their tracks, literally.

David Hutchison is a Cryogenics expert. He built this Cryo-Process himself. He runs a business out of his garage where he cryogenically tempers all kinds of metals. He submerges them in a frozen tank of nitrogen vapor that is 300 degrees below zero.

David says, “During that time, at minus 300 degrees, the molecules slow down. Then they reorganize themselves. That's when the actual chemical change happens.”

Hutchison cryogenically tempers machine parts, tools, golf clubs and even razors. He says it makes them last three to five times longer.

A few years ago he began an experiment on his hybrid Honda, freezing the engine components. The results were a fuel-efficiency dream.

David Hutchison says, “You should expect a “Cryo'd” engine to last anywhere from 600,000 to 1 million miles without wearing out.”

A hybrid Honda typically gets really great gas mileage anyway, around 50 miles to the gallon, but David Hutchison's cryogenically tempered engine has been known to get close to 120 miles a gallon.

“It's just a very efficient vehicle.” Hutchison says,

Racers have picked up on David's trick of cryogenically freezing car parts. It is now widely accepted among NASCAR and Indy-car racers.

Hutchison has no plans of taking his Honda to the track. His prize is in his pocketbook.

David says, “I thought about selling it, but gas prices keep going up. So, I thought, I'm not going to sell it.”

Hutchison tells us cryogenically tempering car parts has more benefits than just fuel efficiency. He freezes all of the brake rotors at a car dealership near his home in Missouri. It makes them last three to five times longer.
 

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This is my opinion and only an opinion. Many people feel otherwise. And there are a lot of factors at play. Agree or disagree but I don't really want an argument.


My basic opinion has two parts.

1) technology changes so fast and cars are getting better at such a high rate that even if a car stayed in perfect condition for 50 years (ignoring the fact that it may be a collectors item which it wouldn't be if they all survived that long) its value would decrease because it would not meet the standards that people today have for a car. Just 15-20 years ago things like ABS and air bags and AC and power windows etc etc etc... were luxury items or didn't exist at all. Today even a civic or a Hyundai has these standard. So the value a perfect condition car from the 1960s has for me vs the value of a 2006 year car is WAY lower even if the prices are inflation adjusted.

2) The economics don't make sense. Again this is an over simplification but it gets my point across. some people may disagree and thats fine. suppose it takes an extra 50% cost to make a car last 50 years instead of 20 years. you pay 150% the cost for 250% the life. Thats great! right? I say no. To simplify lets say you buy the car outright and you have the choice of a $10,000 car that lasts 20 years or a $15,000 car that lasts 50 years.

If you by the $15000 car you forgo $5000 in order to drive your car for an extra 30 years. but what is the value of that extra $5000 really? suppose you invested that extra $5000 for the duration of the life of the cheap car, 20 years. After 20 years at 6%apr that $5000 is now worth $16,035.68 and you can buy another car that will last 20yrs.

The combination of the above two factors makes me believe that having longer lasting cars at significant additional cost is not worth it.
 

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I think you will save gas miledge from the reduced friction but double is pushing my levels of skeptacism. You still have other drivetrain losses along the route to the tires.
 

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the point isn't about making ALL cars last longer. The point is for a cheap price, you could make your Z's engine last longer,and most any other parts on the Z. The point is to make a car that youwant to keep for 30+ years running better and longer than if you kept it stock. There aren't a whole lot of people who own those 60's muscle cars without the "power brakes" and other technology because they think its gonna hold value. they own them because they love those cars and wish to keep them around.

That being said, I dunno about the fuel efficiency thing, but the other portion on parts longevity is worth looking into if you wanna keep your car intact with possibly less breakdowns in both engine, TRANSMISSION, and suspension.
 

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Ok, I have done much research on this topic... and there is a kernel of truth in there, but most of it is snake oil.

When the temperature of certain metals (only a specific set, based on the arrangement the atoms form) is lowered to the appropriate level (again, different for each metal), it passes into a transition state and forms a lattice of higher density in larger domains than it normally would. When the metal is warmed, it maintains some of the new structure.

The change is mild, however, and increases strength on the order of 10%-20%, which is beneficial, but not revolutionary.

The myths:
- cryo will make an engine noticeably more efficient or increase gas mileage (to any significant degree). This bunk about 50-100 mpg is total and complete garbage.
- cryo will make metal lighter (it won't, the metal will have the same mass)
- any metal will work with cryo (it won't, only certain metals)
- the strength will double, triple or more (it won't)

The truths:
- it has some noticeable differences on metal strength
- longer cryo cycles at colder temperatures work better
- it does change the structure of the metal somewhat
- many racers and draggers use cryo, although the benefits have not been proven

If anything, you might cryo treat your rotors to prevent warping or a crank shaft. But it is a waste of money compared to buying better quality parts in the first place...
 

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Cryo, nickel boron, Armoloy®, Amco, Thermal Pin™ all can be used for parts of an engine, metal treatment or heat dissipation.

Check out the rockwell on the Armoloy® and it's automotive applications. The aerospace industry doesn't use the $hit out of it for no reason.



http://www.armoloy-tx.com/tdc-coating.html
Engine and transmission parts such as valves, valve guides, pistons, gears and splines are protected without detrimental tolerance changes or variations.
 

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I feel compelled to join this fray on the side of z3200d.
Everything he says about changing metalurgical structure and the UNPROVEN nature of the treatement is true. The cryogenic treatment of metal parts is a form or heat treatment similar in natue to normalizing the crystaline metal structure.
A questions to think about and I'm pretty sure you can come up with your own conclusions:
If everything else is equal, how can a metallic heat treatment extend engine life by 100%? What wears in an engine and what fails (hint, we seldom wear out the block)?
Can a heat treatment change the surface of a part (it'll change the structure of the metal crystal but not the suface texture)?
Race car builders are as prone as anyone else to go for the "hot, new, trick, process).

I think if you think about the rediculous claims some people make for this treatment, you'll file it with electric superchargers and the vortex air flow improver.

Dan
 

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lol, well the piston rings and such wear down eventually. I think it's pheasable to extend the life of the engine, but I don't see any way it improves fuel efficiency since you're not making anything more efficient.

But in terms of transmissions (to be read synchros and gears), imagine if cryo worked and you're synchros lasted for 500K?? The shavings dues to normal wear would be minimal.

Just somethin to think about. Abnormalities in the metal could be the cause for quickr than optimal wear, normalizing the structure could alleviate the imperfections causing less wear.
 
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