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I installed my crank shaft scraper last year.BTW I bought it from this company.
I had to do a LOT of extra grinding over a few days with the dremel in order to get it to fit properly.
BTW if I shipped it back to the company they did offer to grind it off if I marked the areas needed for fitment, but I decided to do it myself.
I saw zero improvement in track times.It's was a complete and utter waste of my time and money, HOWEVER perhaps your own results would be different from my own.
Perhaps the owner of the company has testimonials from other L6 series owners who saw a HP increase on the Dyno or saw their track times improve after installation of their cranksahft scraper. If he does I am sure he would be willing to share those with you.



Post Edited (Mar 19, 9:56am)
 

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I have mixed thoughts on this part myself. Seems to me it would be best utilized in a car that will see hard cornoring. Additionally, a car running that way would also do very well with a oilpressure stabilizer tank as well.

I dont have that part on my engine, and I am not all that excited about the way inwich the part is installed. I would like to see a scraper installed to cover the whole rotating assembly, secured by dowl pins in four places, and finally sealed in between the oil pan and block. I don't like the main cap bolts used to secure the part.
The scraper dovetails right in with knife edgging the crank and all that expensive work.

Alot of work to get it right, but beneficial none the less.
 

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You're not going to get another 100HP with a crank scraper/windage tray, however they are proven & have dynos & engineering to back that up. Typically only good for up to ~15HP tops, so you wouldn't notice a seat of the pants difference.
 

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uuuhm no they dont give HP 0 nada nothing!!!
A windage tray saves the engine under hard cornering ... not free up HP , neither does a scraper .. these are not HP items
 

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Given it might ad 1 or 2 hp at most 15 is a claim i call BS on ( maybe on a full scale dragster) not on our relatively low hp engines.
Thinking of it maybe small displacement hig revving four bangers might benefit of it more ?? )

Anyway that is not the main reason to use one ..

It is faster revving, and prevent 'foaming'in the oilpan leading to starvation.. and well all disaters that follow that !
 

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Norm wrote:

"I installed my crank shaft scraper last year.BTW I bought it from this company.
I had to do a LOT of extra grinding over a few days with the dremel in order to get it to fit properly.
BTW if I shipped it back to the company they did offer to grind it off if I marked the areas needed for fitment but I decided to do it myself.
I saw zero improvement in track times.It's was a complete and utter waste of my time and money."

_______________________________

Hi Norm,

I think you complained about this before in this or another forum -- hard to remember. At that time I explained that the SCCA racer who lent me the blocks did not have a diesel crank but explained that it was a popular mod.

Rather than tell people they could not have a stroker scraper (many asked when the listing went up) I moved the rod cutouts further out on the computer. I did not alter the counterweights -- some stroker cranks have altered counterweights and some do not -- this is in regards to swept path.

Thank goodness I save all my correspondence with thousands of customers -- you're remembering this a little differently.

You first wrote, in part, that, "It is hitting on journals and it looks like I will have to grind off as much as 2 mm or more to get it clear. Is this normal to have to modify them this much for proper fit?"

I replied, "If you would like, I can cut another one out for you. Just send me a pic with where you would like it reduced and by how much -- I apologize for the trouble!"

No mailing back of the scraper involved...

Then you wrote:
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Hey Kevin, I finally got around to adjusting the crank scraper. I had to remove a lot of material to keep the journals from hitting. I'll send pics to you later so you can see what has to be corrected for future cuts.
I had a question about the ideal distance from the counterweights to the scraper. Cylinders 3 and 4 are much closer than 1 and 6 and I wanted to know which distance is correct. I figure I can put some epoxy on 1 and 6 if the gap is too large at that point.

Thanks,Norm

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Then I wrote:
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Hi Norm,

The ideal clearance is 1mm or .040". It sounds like the counterweights on the LD28 have different ODs. The pattern has them at the same OD as on the L28.

I have attached a jpeg of the original LD28 pattern -- if you can indicate on the drawing what you would like changed that would be great.


Important: I would not recommend using epoxy. It will most likely come right off due to vibration. You can MIG or TIG weld extra metal on but the best plan is to simply have me cut you out a corrected one.

Kind regards,

Kevin

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Then you wrote:

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Also it required some grinding on the top of the main bolts caps in order to get the scraper to sit flush.

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Then I wrote:
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Hi Norm,

I see where you mean about it needing to be relieved. Yes, I have to make those reliefs for many other patterns as well.

I can adjust the mounting tabs on the main caps by just extending more of the "circle" directly under the bolts. If I come halfway down the circle would that be sufficient to clear the caps? Again, this is a fairly common mod. I guess the main caps are a little different going from the L28 to the LD28.

The Loctite is optional, I did not use it with the same style of installation on the Suzuki engine and if I recall correctly the torque on those bolts is only around 40 ftlb.

The epoxy still concerns me. I am happy to cut you out another one. Really. ;-)

Just let me know how much you would like added to the counterweight areas. I see that you have not installed a rod yet -- do you want to check that prior to me cutting a new one?

Kind regards,

Kevin
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Then you wrote:
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Hey Kevin, these are L28 main caps . It just barely hits on the casting flash on 4 of the caps. Its a cinch to grind off. I don't think that GRAY STUFF will come off as it is oil resistant and it's a bear to even scrape off! Also it will only be a 1.5mm small thick buildup. I don't think it's really necessary for you to have to cut out a new one, but I'll let ya know if I change my mind! If I run into any problems with the rod bolts I'll let ya know!


____________________________

So, really, the situation was that I offered to cut you a new one a number of times. I am not sure how much more a company can reasonably do.

About four weeks ago someone wrote to me that they wanted four scrapers made for a particular engine. I could not borrow one so I bought a core for $300 and spent 7 hours on a Saturday picking it up. So, at best, this was not even a break-even deal for me.

Now I hear nothing back from the other party.

I really do go out of my way to try to help people.
 

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jeffp wrote:

"I have mixed thoughts on this part myself. Seems to me it would be best utilized in a car that will see hard cornoring. Additionally, a car running that way would also do very well with a oilpressure stabilizer tank as well.

I dont have that part on my engine, and I am not all that excited about the way inwich the part is installed. I would like to see a scraper installed to cover the whole rotating assembly, secured by dowl pins in four places, and finally sealed in between the oil pan and block. I don't like the main cap bolts used to secure the part.
The scraper dovetails right in with knife edgging the crank and all that expensive work.

Alot of work to get it right, but beneficial none the less."

-------------------------

First, scraper technology is utilized in many stock engines from the past 50 years. The modern engines I have examined all utilize this technology in some way. That's run of the mill stock engines.

Be very careful with oilpressure stabilizing tanks. You have to remember the original problem they were intended to protect against -- the introduction of neat air into the pickup tube. I would say that most air/oil failures result from the presence of too much entrained air in the oil rather than neat air. The dynamics that introduced that air into the oil can be easily exacerbated by the addition of more oil which is what happens when the stabilizer activates.

The way in which the part is installed is an OEM technique. Examples can be seen in the Suzuki G13B and the BMW M54. The M54 won numerous engineering awards, by the way.

There are, of course, many ways to design a scraper. I assure you that many people prefer an alternate method to capturing it between the pan and block. I normally suggest using dowel pins to locate such designs to racers who will be inspecting the bottom end often.
 

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Frank280Z wrote:

"uuuhm no they dont give HP 0 nada nothing!!!
A windage tray saves the engine under hard cornering ... not free up HP , neither does a scraper .. these are not HP items"


I recently corresponded with someone from Nismo. The SR20 and KA24de both have girdles. Careful testing has shown that the presence of the girdles alone costs about 5% of engine output due to windage loss. In the SR20, that's about 8hp.

That's not even dealing with scrapers -- which can be found in the SR20 and KA24DE, by the way.

That's not even dealing with windage trays -- which can be found in the SR20 and KA24de, by the way.

I say it many times -- scraper technology is extremely well supported empirically and its use is subsumed by professional automotive engineers. Including Nissan engineers.
 

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240zcar wrote:

"It aint gonna do a dang thing for performance. Its strictly a braggart item."

Boy, I wish you would speak to the SCCA -- they clearly regulate them as performance parts.

Many circle tracks specifically ban them because they are too much of an unfair advantage in low-buck racing.

Anyway...
 

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???

"Typically only good for up to ~15HP tops, so you wouldn't notice a seat of the pants difference."

Light cars with high revving engines even? My buddy marc put one in his GT3 Corvair, and was asking me 'does it make sense that it seems to be coming out of corners harder?'

Seems like Marc noticed something...

Did I? Nope, but I know it's in there, stripping windage, and keeping oil in the pan, where it can be sucked up by the pickup and used again quickly.

In high speed rotating equipment, adding a windage tray on gearmesh engagement areas of a 300HP gearbox resulted in an IMMEDIATE 25HP reduction in power required to drive the geartrain. This mean that horsepower could be used for making end product, and not as internal, parasitic losses to simply drive the rotating assembly.

Same theory applies in this case as well.


Though some here claim they can feel a 15 to 25hp increase (Pop Charger, Hot Coil, Headers....)

The Butt-Dyno Lies all the time. My Fairlady FELT a LOT faster with the Webers, Headers, and open exhaust. But it made 90 RWHP. Putting on the stock EFI, etc etc etc and the DYNO said it then produced 147 RWHP.

But it FELT a lot slower.

To repeat: The Butt-Dyno Lies...
 

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Skip it Kevin...

Some people are simply idiots, and will throw stones out of ignorance.

Like the apes on "2001" they all sit there scratching themselves and screeching at the occasional interloper that tries to show them how to make fire.

Engineering Understanding is not a highpoint here...
 
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Hey Kevin, I said that you offered to cut the part correctly. I remember you saying I had to ship it back because there is no way a photo would allow you to know where it needs to be cut. I would have just had to grind on the new part as well if you did it by a poor quality photo.
Anyway in my engine at least I saw no improvement, maybe others will have different results. Not trying to hurt your product just merely relaying my own experiences.
BTW, I'll be sure to add a Privacy Clause to all my future email correspondences so that a company doesn't throw up personal emails onto the worldwide web.That is REALLY a poor business practice dude and my lawyer probably would agree.



Post Edited (Mar 18, 9:14pm)
 

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Norm wrote:

"Hey Kevin, I said that you offered to cut the part correctly. I remember you saying I had to ship it back because there is no way a photo would allow you to know where it needs to be cut. I would have just had to grind on the new part as well if you did it by a poor quality photo.
Anyway in my engine at least I saw no improvement, maybe others will have different results. Not trying to hurt your product just merely relaying my own experiences.
BTW, I'll be sure to add a Privacy Clause to all my future email correspondences so that a company doesn't throw up personal emails onto the worldwide web.That is REALLY a poor business practice dude and my lawyer probably would agree."

Norm,

All I am trying to do is relay your experiences as they actually happened versus how you misremember them and transmit same on the World Wide Web to the detriment of my business.

By the way, I took 75 minutes out of my day to watch the YouTube video you have linked. I agree with you.

Kind regards,

Kevin Johnson
Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers
 
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Hey Kevin, as I said I wasn't trying to hurt your business in any way as I was sharing MY OWN personal experience and I stated that oil scrapers do work it just didn't offer any gains on my engine..Also, how could you have cut the scraper properly from just pictures, you couldn't have??
I was trying to save you the trouble since I would have had to still grind on the new part as well.
I don't see how you could have done it with pics when you have 1mm clearance to play with. I had to grind all over the part especially around the rod bolts to make it clear.I stand by my statement that using personal emails as web fodder is a very poor business practice.

BTW glad you liked the GW video.

If you wanna see something a lot funnier then watch this short 84 second video I shot Saturday night.

CLICK HERE FOR MY VIDEO RESPONSE TO THE MORON
 

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"Hey Kevin, as I said I wasn't trying to hurt your business in any way as I was sharing MY OWN personal experience and I stated that oil scrapers do work it just didn't offer any gains on my engine..Also, how could you have cut the scraper properly from just pictures, you couldn't have??
I was trying to save you the trouble since I would have had to still grind on the new part as well.
I don't see how you could have done it with pics when you have 1mm clearance to play with. I had to grind all over the part especially around the rod bolts to make it clear.I stand by my statement that using personal emails as web fodder is a very poor business practice.

BTW glad you liked the GW video.

If you wanna see something a lot funnier then watch this short 84 second video I shot Saturday night."

Norm,

The personal experience you were and are sharing is not quite what actually occured -- that's the problem. I think I have been very patient and understanding but this is the second time it has happened. Perhaps it has happened more often -- I follow over a hundred websites but certainly cannot monitor them all. I am quite sure if the situation were reversed you would have little hesitation to quote or reprint an email from a vendor.*

[*Aside: in fact this happens quite often -- not by you per se but I often find special quotes I have given to people reprinted on lists.]

If you reread the emails I sent to you I included a jpeg of the pattern -- that is a 1:1 image with no distortion inherent in pictures. You could simply place your scraper on top of it and trace. I have made a few hundred patterns this way.

Kind regards,

Kevin Johnson
Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers



Post Edited (Mar 19, 8:00am)
 
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If I misunderstood the need for return shipment then I apologize for that mistatement

But basically you still sent me a part the first time around that was misadvertised as a stroker crankshaft scraper. You didn't do the proper research before selling a part that was not suited for the stated application.That's a poor business practice in and of itself. Yes you offered to fix the problem, but it should have been at least close to being right for the application when you first sold the part.
When all was said and done I was able to adjust the part to within the 1mm limit you described and I only had to build up two of the areas with epoxy.

Also you keep missing the point that I have stated that crankshaft scrapers have been shown to work in some engines. However, it did not show any benefits in my particular engine.

If you have emails from individuals with L6 series engines who have seen track times improve or HP improve on a dyno after the addition of your crankscraper then please post those in this thread as a counter to my own experience.
 
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