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what is the best combination of shock and strut that will give me the best perforamnce. i am looking for more stiffness rather than comfort. i read all the post earlier and it seems like gas is the way to go? i am on a budget so i don't want to go outrageously expensive, but i do want decent parts. what will give me performance, like braking without the nose diving towars the ground or cornering without any body roll. i want something that is just short welding steel post in place of the shock. is this expensive? i amnot worried about the ride, i just want to take corners with worry of roll. i know i have to have tires to match and that is coming also. tnakn you for any info on this.
 

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Tokiko Non-Adjustables...

like $69 each. I don't think anything will perform better, save for the Illuminas, but they're twice the cost. Non-adjustables are comparable to a 3 setting on the Illuminas, and that's where I drive mine everywhere but autocross.
You need to do them in pairs, front to back (or back to front...) so you can strin g it out somewhat...
You don't want a 'welded' rod...
Trust me on this. You need compliance, and damping. Stiff is the Illuminas, or the old Pro Dra-G. They are stout. But they say they are not for street use, motorsport use only. I have them in my 71 240, boughtthem in Japan. Stifferthan Illuminas on 5 by about 50%
Roll will be countered somewhat by roll bars (heh) but the spring rates and damping force of the shock also play a part in this.
GM springs soft, and dampens heavily. This results in a car thatwill ride down the road well on rough surfaces (read still in control without the wheel bouncing everywhere). This is like stock springs with illuminas on 3. Turning them up to five controls better, but starts resulting in "choppy" ride. Ass stiff springs, and you get really choppy, and almost undriveable on rough surfaces.
Be careful what you wish for, you may find you end up with something you can't drive on a gravel road, or asphalt with heaves and small potholes!
If there were any way you could foot the bill for the Illuminas, you would be better off, as if the non-adjustables are too soft for you, then you're out paying what you would've paid for Illuminas in the first place! If you get teh Illuminas, you can start at "1" and work your way up as you add roll bars, springs, tires, etc. If THEY are too "soft" at five, well, then you're "hard core" like me, and likethe way one-ton pickups ride without a load in them! Then you go to the Pro-Dra-G.
Also, with the Illuminas, you can change dampening front to back, for drag racing or such! (i.E. Allow rear squat for acceleration, etc)
Hope this helps...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Re: Tokiko Non-Adjustables...

can i keep the stock springs with those? if not what kind of springs should i get? someone once said on here that it isthe spring that makes the ride. was he wrong? i will be looking into the shock here. $69 is cheap compared to other things i have been told around here.i think that $100-150 would be reasonable for a good shock. thank you for your help.
 

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You might want to consider sway bar upgrade first and then look into shocks and springs. Motorsport sway bar kit is about $200 when they have it on sale $230 or so normally. You will find a HUGE difference in cornering and overall handling with this upgrade from stock. Motorsport, Top End Performance and many others also offer spring/shock kits that would be good also. Eibach is popular as well as Tokico systems. Springs can be had for in the range of $200 or so. I think TonyD's quote of about $69 is about as good as it gets for shock cartridges except for perhaps if someone like Gabriel or such offers a replacement, but I would stick with Tokico, Koni, or Bilstein (ie name brands with enthusiast followings).
 

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Shocks don't limit final roll, they just affect the rate at which roll occurs, i.e. transitional handling. You need bars and springs to change roll angle. Keep in mind that too stiff, especially on the street, actually results in worse handling because the tires are skating across the road instead of gripping it. Shocks need to be matched to wheel rates. Tokico Illumina adjustables would be a good starting place after more spring and roll bar.
 

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Re:try this

I own a 79' 280ZX and I put KYB Agx on mine and bought a front and rear strut sway bar from Victoria Brititsh and mines as stiff as it can get. Before you could push my car down to the ground and now it holds the road like a damned rail car. Tokiko's are good too though so it just depends mine are 3-way adjustables and don't forget to check frme bushings too when you get them replaced and when you want bushings get urathane bushings they will live longer and hold better.
 

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Depends pn what you mean "ride".

A softer spring lets the wheel react quicker to severe undulations without upsetting the chassis.
A stiffer spring will hold the road better, as it will react to smaller differences quicker, but you end up with a chassis that follows the road.
Stiff springs are NOT a requirement for good performance on the street. Take a look at a Camaro. It has spongy springs, so on rough stuff, it still retains control without pitching the car all about.
Stiffen the springs and you get a car that handles even better, but at the expense of now jarring things loose on the car, developing fatigue cracks in stressed areas, etc...
Damping provided by the shock really determines how well the spring can react to the road surface.
This allows a much softer spring to give wheel travel of a large pothole, without making the frontend dip down thaen back up like astiffer spring would. On the rebound, though, the softer spring will come back quicker, again without experiencing the dip earlier, and you rid e along undisturbed. The stiffer spring would transmit that rebound directly to the chassis, lifting the car front end back up, pitching the dynamicand making for a bit more "busy" driving control scenario.
This assumes similar damping. Stiff springs require softer damping in most cases. Softer springs benefit from stiffer damping, without harshening the ride quality.
I mean, having the ride all bumpy, jumpy, and jarring is what a lot of guys "Think" performance is, but it gcan get really tiring on a 3000 mile drive across the country.
All that being said, the spring rates on my 73 240 Z are 275 #/In up front, and 325 #/In out back. Compare those to what is offered by most spring manufacturers, and you will find that's about 100% stiffer than the off-the-shelf springs you can buy at most places...
I also weighed 330#, so my "chassis Dynamic" is a bit different than most. As well as being jarring at low speeds, you really have to be going 80 or so for these springs to be appreciated. It also gives a new meaning to "as stiff as it can get"...
No, they are not available, you have to have them custom wound. They cost a lot of money, since they are NOT on a coil-over setup, and yes, I don't mind a "stiff" ride in that car...
 

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Exactly Katman!

See above for my attempt at a long-winded explanation of your response!
 
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