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hey Jeff,

just wanted to say that i think your Z is awesome! i saw it somewhere before, i believe it was in the magazine (sport z)? what i really like in addition to the cool turbo powerplant, is it still retains the cool look of a normal 280zx.... it makes me have so much more appreciation for my zx even though it's just a typical daily driver street z, non-turbo of coarse.... though i would like it to be :grin

great ride man.

thanks for your informative post on your Z and also for being so humble.

Bon
 

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Discussion Starter #43
"Dude I have 2 cars. Look in my Garage. My blue 1979 is the one I take to shows. It is stock and does not have all the mods that most of the 57 Chevy's have but it does stand out because it is not a 57 Chevy."

I mean SERIOUSLY!

This guy is actually advocating:

"I showed up with 74 other cars, because mine was the only import I deserve a trophy."

Is that not the QUINTESSENTIAL manifestation of the Barneyesque "everybody is special, here's your gold star" entitlement mindset?

I have been around car shows a long time, I've watched ballot box stuffers...heck I've seen guys refuse to attend a show again because they didn't receive a trophy...and then quit the club and demand both their club dues and car show entry money back retroactively.


Know what? We gave it to,him. Just like Jecrash, these people with these mindsets are not what you want around your car show. Better to let them go away to grow up... Or not. Attend car shows long enough and you will be able to identify guys like this early on...

If he didn't win, it was "Club Cronyism" and if he joins the club, and STILL doesn't win...it's "Domestic Bias" or "Racism" or "Early-Model Bias" or "Z32 Bias" or "Import Bias"...

Consider your car, while not a literal POS....isn't the shiniest turd in the poop pile, and maybe YOU need to work on that. Not go online looking for other losers who can't get out their McGuiar's Detailing Kit and go over their car before judging starts.


And for gods sakes man, take some OO Steel Wool, buff your fuel rail until it's SHINY LIKE STOCK and not all black and splotchy, then lacquer coat it so it STAYS CLEAN! CLEAN your BATTERY & the BATTERY BOX! Remove the peeling labels on the battery! WASH OUT THE WIPER TANK! CLEAN the brake reservoirs...

I mean, dude.... Your car under hood is a MESS! If you don't detail the basics, just showing up as the only guy there isn't going to cut it with presentation that s h i t t y.... If you didn't put attention to the engine bay, I can only imagine what the interior and exterior looks like when scrutinized closely. Maybe it's just that the local guys take better care of their vehicles than you do, and that they be domestic is beside the point.

From what I'm seeing, you wouldn't get a trophy at our Z-Car Club Show, and that's 110 cars of all years Datsun/Nissan!

The photo shoot on this page was how it was sitting parked at his apartment when the magazine guys came over to shoot it... See what I'm saying here?

What A CLEAN ZX looks like...

His engine bay is cleaner than yours while he's doing an TOP END OVERHAUL!

You show up to a show having bought a car and done nothing more than add gas, maybe oil and fluids, and run a feather duster over the car and lose at a car show.

JeffP did THIS an lost as well, REPEATEDLY... Let me ask you: who's coming off as the whiny spoiled kid, and who comes off as "reasonably justified in his protestation"? Thing is, JeffP didn't whine about losing like you're doing.

It sucks when the "don't judge me crowd" enters events which, ironically, involve subjective judgement. A lifetime of being told "it's great, you're super!" Clashes with the reality that, indeed, you are NOT!

For almost 50 years now the VW Crowd has been awarding a "Worst of Show" trophy. Guys COMPETE for it. I have a feeling getting THAT trophy wouldn't make him happy, either!

I'm sure the participant plaque isn't enough. In a few more years Clubs will start handing out blue ribbons to kids who drive through the gates so everybody gets a trophy. I hope I'm dead by then. "Killing the pursuit of excellence, and pushing the lowest common denominator as exceptional, one whiney loser at a time!"
Tony

You have some points I agree with. When I got the car 2.5 years ago the entire engine bay was undercoated. I removed the undercoating from the strut towers and a couple other places, cleaned up the hoses and the bottom side of the hood. I still have a long way to go in the engine compartment. The rest of the car did not need anything done to it.

Around here you don't see many old Z's. You see them on Craig's list more than on the road. I know my car can not stand up to anything out west. Its a nice stock car.
 

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"The rest of the car did not need anything done to it."

I know people who take a brand new detailed car off the showroom floor to a guy in Huntington Beach... they pay this gentleman $300+ for his time...

Once you see what you THOUGHT was a 'clean, best there can be car' and realize just how terribly it was prepped.... You realize what needs to be done. I would not have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes. Brand New Pontiac G8, ended up looking like a SHOW car, and not "JUST" a 'NEW' Car.

It's a matter of degrees. I would disagree with "nothing else needed to be done to the rest of the car" just on the above example alone.

The bar is high, you can't just show up and take a prize.
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Latest Debacle

My friend and I entered a charity car show Saturday sponsored by the Pontiac club of Iowa. They had an import class. My friend and I were the only Import cars there until a small exotic looking car showed up. He had a sign made up to display in front of his car. It was a kit car made with a VW chassis, Chevy Corvair engine and a California fiberglass body. The owner left before the awards. Needless to say it won Best Import.

I called and talked to the club vice president after I got home and asked how a non import car could win an Import class. He said it was participant voting and was as it should be.

Shouldn't the organizers be responsible for the categories they select for a show? Unbelievable!
 

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Now a VW isn't an import...because your "drive it in, give me the award mentality" has you losing again?

You really do not get it, do you?

How many times must this be said: "YOU CAN'T JUST DRIVE YOUR CAR INTO A SHOW AND EXPECT TO WIN A PRIZE AGAINST OTHER CARS WHERE OWNERS ACTUALLY DO THINGS TO PREPARE THEIR CARS!"
 

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"Shouldn't the organizers be responsible for the categories they select for a show? Unbelievable!"

Only if the entrants are...you refuse to accept your failings in this equation. Until you realize your failings....very bad form to carp about a guy DOING SOMETHING like having a show.

How ungrateful! Unbelievable!:cry
 

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Discussion Starter #48
"Shouldn't the organizers be responsible for the categories they select for a show? Unbelievable!"

Only if the entrants are...you refuse to accept your failings in this equation. Until you realize your failings....very bad form to carp about a guy DOING SOMETHING like having a show.

How ungrateful! Unbelievable!:cry
Do you listen to your own Rhetoric? This was a kit car built in a garage. It was not imported to the US. You cannot purchase the car anywhere. Also some facts; got a call back from the VicePresident. Here are the numbers; 18 votes for Kit car, 14 for my friends 240z and14 for my 280zx. That totals 46 votes. There were 81 entrants. That means 35 Red Necks did not vote for the Import class which is nearly half. Proves my point about bias towards Imports. LOL
 

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I've gotten 3 or 4 trophies with my car and only been to 3-4 shows. Great car? Nope. Basically nobody else showed up. Trophies and plaques are proudly displayed in the bottom drawer of my filing cabinet. This to say, " Who cares if you won or not? Who cares if there is import bias? Go to the show, drink some ETOH, eat some food, enjoy great cars and good people and past that, stfu." Unbelievable thread. :surprise
 

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Do you listen to your own Rhetoric? This was a kit car built in a garage. It was not imported to the US. You cannot purchase the car anywhere. Also some facts; got a call back from the VicePresident. Here are the numbers; 18 votes for Kit car, 14 for my friends 240z and14 for my 280zx. That totals 46 votes. There were 81 entrants. That means 35 Red Necks did not vote for the Import class which is nearly half. Proves my point about bias towards Imports. LOL
"This was a kit car built in a garage. It was not imported to the US. "

Ditto Aruba, how is a VW not an import.

"This was a kit car built in a garage."

Proving my point: YOU didn't do anything but arrive in a car you BOUGHT. You should ALWAYS lose to a car that was BUILT!

"Here are the numbers; 18 votes for Kit car, 14 for my friends 240z and14 for my 280zx. That totals 46 votes. There were 81 entrants. That means 35 Red Necks did not vote for the Import class which is nearly half. Proves my point about bias towards Imports."

No, it proves YOU LOST! The ARROGANCE that you thnk 35 votes would go to you is laughable.

What you FAIL TO SEE is the following: FOR THE PEOPLE THAT CARED ABOUT IMPORTS YOU STILL LOST!

That someone DOESN'T vote is not anything about being red neck. Did you ask about the other votes? Did the show winner get 81 votes? I doubt it. Because someone doesn't vote means NOTHING, other than the chose not to vote. If they were forced to vote, you may be SORELY. Disappointed to learn EVEN MORE PEOPLE ARE UNIMPRESSED WITH YOUR CAR!

There is no bias proven there, none whatsoever.

What it does prove, though....is that amongst people who DO VOTE FOR IMPORTS---YOU STILL LOST!!!

Face it, your car won't win until you up your game.

You have been judged by the masses, and found unworthy. Found lacking. Found not to measure up.

And as a result ITS EVERYBODY ELSES PROBLEM INSTEAD OF YOURS.

Dude, what are you, like 15? Grow up. Your car is crap at a show, the votes show it...67 people thought your car was so unimpressive they chose not to vote for it.

Never forget that fact: 67 of 81 people DID NOT VOTE FOR YOUR CAR!

That says, by a 5 to 1 margin, people think your car sucks, compared to people who think your car does not suck.

You're right, the numbers don't lie: by a 5:1 margin, people are telling you you need to work on your car more, AND NOT JUST SHOW UP EXPECTING TO WIN WITH A FILTHY DAILY DRIVER!

Bias? More like retardation. I typed this really slow so that you might understand what the people (by a 5:1 majority) are trying to tell you!
 

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Math is a Bitch, eh?
 

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Well, if you only went through Carpentry Basic Math in Trades Classes in High School, you may not be able to comprehend the stats that clearly were shown in his supplied numbers.

As someone who trains new engineers, I felt it incumbent in my role here to educate him on the proper meaning of what the numbers were actually saying.
 

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I have to admit in many car shows I've attended...I don't vote.

I let the people who are hung up on that sort of thing sort it out. They care about the validation, I don't need to feed their needy beast.

I know of a case recently where a Jecrash doppelgänger melted down at the ZCON, apparently because he paid for someone to prejudge his car to insure a trophy....and was not even in the running when judged by the real, accredited judges. We all expected that from him... Likely as will all the car show organizers in his neck of the woods before long!

Empire Z will be holding it's 8th Annual Z-Car Show on October 11th, registration is now open. But BEWARE: the photo you see on the homepage is what the general membership drives to the annual CLUB PICNIC, and chances are Jecrash's ZX woukdn't get a "People's Notice" vote in that parking lot gathering, either!

Empire Z Home Page

From the BBQ Parking Lot, WHICH DO YOU VOTE FOR?
Number 1:

Number 2:

Get the point yet? Both are VG30's.
 

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Unrealistic expectations. Enter a car show in the US and, God forbid, they like American-made cars more. Then to get butt-hurt over voting results, Really? Of all the issues in this world, one chooses to get upset over a car show tally. Someone needs to get a life and rearrange priorities in life.

I entered a show sponsored by the local YMCA. I was parked next to a pristine 64 split window Vette. Out of my league. :surprise
 

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There is absolutely no evidence of that, though! That is the whole point!

It's "Because I lost, there is a BIAS"

As I pointed out, 67 people thought his car sucked so bad, they didn't vote for it. 14 people thought otherwise. That is ALL those numbers proved. Nothing more.

I agree on the priorities, I mean REALLY? Calling the organizers of a PEOPLE'S CHOICE CAR SHOW to complain that people didn't like his car, and demanding to know the COUNT???

I know what I would have told that caller to MY car show!

In fact, we made one guy a trophy all his own, just so he would go away.

Eventually, he will get his trophy. It will be all his own. My bet is they will also award it just so he goes away!

Putting a clapped out Daily Driven Datsun in a car show with $40,000+ Street Rods and Vintage Muscle? Unless your car POPS and is PRISTINE, give it up. Just showing up with the only import ain't cuttin' it, and never should. Winning a trophy by default....really isn't winning!

In fact, even MSA started cutting out awarding trophies for third if only three cars were entered in a class.

In the above case...at MSA...he would have gotten NOTHING as apparently the only imports that showed were the Kit Car and Two Z's. That means a tie 14-14 means no second place is awarded.

And remember, I don't vote for my own car. My bet is, he does.

:wink
 

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I was parked next to a pristine 64 split window Vette.

1963 was the ONLY year for the 'split window'.

Bonzi Lon
 

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LOL. So there you go. 63 it is
 

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Split Windows were available until 1967 on a VW Microbus. And they predate the Corvette rip-of of their ideas...
 

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Je, goddamn dude you've been arguing this crap for almost a year now. Are you that insecure about your car that you need validation from others? I rarely post on these sympathy / heavily opinionated threads b/c it's a waste of time arguing with most people, especially online, but your whole demeanor just tipped me over the edge.

Who gives a crap what other people think, just enjoy your car. I never understood that mentality. I just build cars and when I'm finished I move on to the next one. **** both of my s130s would probably get a lot more compliments than yours, and yet neither one of mine have been entered in car shows...I could care less what other people think, I built them for me. AND, even if mine were parked next to yours and yours still took all the votes over mine, guess what. I still wouldn't give a crap, bc I didn't build MY cars to satisfy other people, I built them for ME. How is that so difficult to comprehend?

IF ANYTHING, at least harvest your energy and direct it towards a 500hp L28et build for your car instead of just whining that nobody pays attention to your car. Then you could probably smoke 90% of the domestics at that car show and I'll be willing to be you'll get some recognition then at the next meet. At least that would be a solution to your automotive insecurity other than just crying about it.
 
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