burtons 72

heroe said:

ok. TY. its more impressive without the g nose, but history is being made so g nose it is. Im not up on g nose history, but if it was made during the s30 time, that means it was designed without the wind tunnel aid. Wouldnt a revised version be benefitial?

Click to expand...

What history? He's still slower than us! LOL The G-Nose has been run in competition at LandSpeed Trials since the Z's inception and has been on many Production and GT entries.

The key is that it IS a PRODUCTION part (and my fights with the rules committee several years ago have borne this out as a fact)---if you are at Bonneville and are running a G-Nose on your car for improved Aero: THANK ME, I'm the guy with the e-mails and submitted sales brochures to prove it. Thank also Alan Thomas from the UK for his invaluable historical contribution of archival photos as well as some FIA appendix J rules that supported the effort when the 'legality' of the G-Nose was called into question. As a branch out of this fight, now later Z's can compete in Production Catagories which they formerly were banned from due to anachronistic definitions.

But I digress...

When in competiton you have rules. These rules define a fair comparison between vehicles. The rules for /PRO and /GT require that the body be STOCK AND UNALTERED. This means ONLY production devices can be run on the body for improved aerodynamics. Run a spook spoiler and you move to another class. Same for an MSA Type 3 front glass kit: on a /GT car you would move to /MS (read the records for Modified Sports and you will see why you don't want to do this!!!) On a /PRO car you would move into an /ALT class, or some other Production-Altered style class.

I will agree his accomplishment is astounding. I owe him a dollar when we meet. I had an open bet that no open-maw S30 would break 150mph. Burton in combination with Dave Rebello proved me wrong. It only took getting 400HP out of the engine, and having it be able to last 10 or 16 miles running wide open at redline to do it... So I'll pay up when I see him next (possibly at El Mirage!) The aero on an S30 sucks dogs testes and you really have a brick to push through the air to get to that speed. Burton has a good 80hp more than we did to go .002 mph faster WITH a G-Nose so my argument to him was to use it and really bump up his speeds through aerodynamic advantage rather than brute power. Power is good, but it's working hard to get that speed. I suspect 15-20 mph faster on his car with the G-Nose. The aero goes from .465 to closer to .38/.40 at the worst, depending on rake, tires, etc... That is significant at that kind of speed. It decreases horsepower to get and maintain the speed immeasurably!

Don't assume the Japanese Manufacturers didn't use the wind tunnel. The ZG nose was NOT available in 1969, it was introduced in 1971 as the new models came out. This was a direct response to competition issues. And rest assured, while the original body was more of a 'styling' exercise, the G-Nose was a purely functional appendage arrived at from countless aerodynamic studies and functional tests. 69 and 70 models competed without them, from 1971 on any Z you saw on the race track was sporting either a G-Nose or the non-G-Nose alternative (blocked front end, with small hole for radiator air and heavy air management ducting). Even with the G-Nose wind tunnel testing done recently (poo poohed on this forum by an assholish individual since banned...) revealed that the mere presence of any G-Nose does NOT guarantee that there is an improvement! You must have proper airflow management from inlet to radiator---something the knock-off G-Noses don't have! During this testing, the MSA Typ3 was found lacking, but with simple modifications performed ADMIRABLY (suprisingly so, given it's appearance!) AND to MSA's credit, they altered their design based on the Aerodynamic Testing Results to get a kit that not only looked good, but had significant aerodynamic benefits when installed as well!

Long and short: sure you can do more effective things aerodynamically. But the rules will place you in a different classification. You must retain only stock items for competition in /PRO and /GT classes. What IS allowable in /GT though is an ENGINE SWAP. Meaning RB power is an option. And Burton is looking into that as well...

Sometimes it's scary what I got inside knowledge about, huh?