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Burning oil so bad it won't drive around the block... suddenly

447 Views 19 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  kickstand80
This is my 82 that I rebuilt the transmission on, did about 250km test mileage with zero problems and zero hiccups... then after sitting for 3 days, it couldn't even back out of the driveway without dying - plugs severely oil fouled.

After a new set of plugs, the car could barely run after 100 feet and only made it around the block coasting. New plugs were wet with oil after 500 meters.

I can't think of any way this much oil could get into the cylinders other than valve seals or rings.

Thoughts?
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This is my 82 that I rebuilt the transmission on, did about 250km test mileage with zero problems and zero hiccups... then after sitting for 3 days, it couldn't even back out of the driveway without dying - plugs severely oil fouled.

After a new set of plugs, the car could barely run after 100 feet and only made it around the block coasting. New plugs were wet with oil after 500 meters.

I can't think of any way this much oil could get into the cylinders other than valve seals or rings.

Thoughts?
Before this all happened did you open up the engine at all if so what work and when was it done?
Have you checked compression? Mine has oily spark plugs with almost 200psi compression on all cylinders, so I think my problem is either with the PCV or valve seals
Before this all happened did you open up the engine at all if so what work and when was it done?
No, I bought the car with a blown transmission and drove it about 5km to my garage, then parked it. It ran very little over a 2 year period (possibly longer) but it seemed to be running fine, as I said, for about 250km. I just checked the basics and changed the oil. I didn't see any major reasons to dig deeper as the car was running virtually flawlessly.

Have you checked compression? Mine has oily spark plugs with almost 200psi compression on all cylinders, so I think my problem is either with the PCV or valve seals
I haven't checked it yet for one simple reason- if it's seals, I can take care of that in a day for $100 and move forward. If it's rings, I'm going to need to come up with a whole new plan for that car - I'm not eager to have it back in pieces taking up valuable garage space again after just finishing the transmission. And obviously it's going to cost a bit more than $100 ;)

I'll probably check the compression this weekend because I am curious. Probably wise since there's no point in wasting money on valve seals if the rings are clearly bad... it's just bad news I don't really want right now.

EDIT: My real curiosity here is which of those 2 things, if any, might have gone bad so quickly. It was literally one 30km flawless drive, then next start car won't run due to oil fouling.
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Are you sure its oil burn and not running SUPER rich? Did you change anything on the PCV system? Do you still have the hose on the valve cover and the hose under the intake manifold that goes from the front of the engine block to the PCV valve that is in the bottom middle of the intake manifold?
A broken or disconnected intake boot after the AFM will cause the car to run really bad. A bad or disconnected CHTS will make your car run really really bad.
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I'd never say I'm 100% certain, although there's a huge amount of blue smoke and it does smell like burning oil more than fuel. Having said that, the oil on the plugs is jet black while the oil in the engine is brand new. I can't say I've ever had an engine burn oil this badly so perhaps this ultra black oil is "normal" for burning this way.

I've checked and cleaned the PCV valve- it was free, but quite oily, so I cleaned it out for good measure. Intake parts look all intact, although I could look even more carefully for obvious problems. I've seen the cold start valve mentioned, but as I was pretty sure this was mostly oil I didn't think much about it.

I'm thinking heavy blue smoke means it's oil, but I'm open to all theories!
Without being able to drive it for any amount of distance to test oil consumption it may be difficult to say oil or rich. Going from good to bad that fast seems odd but the car was down for 2 years? Rings can get stuck. Surface rust can form in the cylinders and damage rings. Do the compression test, both wet and dry and report results please.
Without being able to drive it for any amount of distance to test oil consumption it may be difficult to say oil or rich. Going from good to bad that fast seems odd but the car was down for 2 years? Rings can get stuck. Surface rust can form in the cylinders and damage rings. Do the compression test, both wet and dry and report results please.
Yes, the car did sit a lot over a 2-3 year period. I ran it a few times just to move some oil around and boil off some moisture, but otherwise it sat. My first thought was rings, but it ran so well for those couple hundred miles I figured the rings wouldn't suddenly get that much worse.

Also, I really like the idea of it being some problem common to all the cylinders, such as intake, fuel-air etc, rather than 6-12 valve seals going bad all at once.

FWIW my neighbor was a Mercedes mechanic for 47 years and his conclusion was that it's definitely burning a lot of oil. He was really fixated on intake issues though as well. I just can't see how an intake problem could result in so much oil getting into the combustion chambers. The PCV was the only common thread I could think of.

I'll check the compression, but if it's the rings I think I'm going to throw in the towel on reliving my youth and sell the car. :D
What's the best way to disable the fuel system to run the compression check? Fuel relay (I gather there are a couple) or disconnect injectors?
Well, for what it's worth, here are my dry readings (let's call them dry-ish as I think the cylinders are pretty well oiled down): 188,189,178,190,185,187.

I'm not going to do a wet compression test as my back is aching and I think it's reasonable to think that there's nothing catastrophic wrong with the rings
I would agree. You can change the valve seal without pulling the head.
I've ordered the parts from Rockauto and they should be here Tuesday. I'll slam them in and fingers crossed it'll be a midweek miracle. 😂

I'm trying to fall back in love with this car. Two long drives in the countryside had me most of the way there. Here's hoping! 🤞
You should be able to tell if the seals are shot right away. You sould pull on valve assy spring off and takd a look. Don't worry about the exhaust just do a intake. I personally find it hard to think it could be that bad, just from valve stem seals. I would be tempted to disable the PCV system, just plug up the hose to the PCV valve and leave the valve cover vented (plug the hose that vents it to prevent a vacuum leak). leave the valve cover vented only. That should cover vacuum leaks and allow any blowby to vent. Then see if it still burns oil.
This is my 82 that I rebuilt the transmission on, did about 250km test mileage with zero problems and zero hiccups... then after sitting for 3 days, it couldn't even back out of the driveway without dying - plugs severely oil fouled.

After a new set of plugs, the car could barely run after 100 feet and only made it around the block coasting. New plugs were wet with oil after 500 meters.

I can't think of any way this much oil could get into the cylinders other than valve seals or rings.

Thoughts?
It’s strange to come on all of a sudden like you said.
Is this car an automatic? I would check the vacuum modulator first thing, if the diaphragm is ruptured it’s gonna suck all the fluid out of your transmission Claude up your whole driveway and the car won’t move very far.
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This is my 82 that I rebuilt the transmission on, did about 250km test mileage with zero problems and zero hiccups... then after sitting for 3 days, it couldn't even back out of the driveway without dying - plugs severely oil fouled.

After a new set of plugs, the car could barely run after 100 feet and only made it around the block coasting. New plugs were wet with oil after 500 meters.

I can't think of any way this much oil could get into the cylinders other than valve seals or rings.

Thoughts?
PCV system. The engine will run lousy if the engine is under a lot of positive pressure. It will force the oil past the rings. Positive pressure doesn’t mean under high pressures.
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You should be able to tell if the seals are shot right away. You sould pull on valve assy spring off and takd a look. Don't worry about the exhaust just do a intake. I personally find it hard to think it could be that bad, just from valve stem seals. I would be tempted to disable the PCV system, just plug up the hose to the PCV valve and leave the valve cover vented (plug the hose that vents it to prevent a vacuum leak). leave the valve cover vented only. That should cover vacuum leaks and allow any blowby to vent. Then see if it still burns oil.
So... I got new seals in from rockauto. They were the wrong part. Also, their return system is very consumer-hostile but that's another story. I took a couple seals out and you know what? They look fine. Rubber is still pliable, springs are there, I can't imagine they're sealing so bad as to explain all this oil. I was thinking I'd find hardened, cracked seals, but I think you guys are right, I now can't imagine it's the seals.

Thing is, I checked the PCV valve and it was free. I cleaned it and now it's extra free. Is there somewhere else I should be looking?

It’s strange to come on all of a sudden like you said.
Is this car an automatic? I would check the vacuum modulator first thing, if the diaphragm is ruptured it’s gonna suck all the fluid out of your transmission Claude up your whole driveway and the car won’t move very far.
Great idea- but it's a manual.

PCV system. The engine will run lousy if the engine is under a lot of positive pressure. It will force the oil past the rings. Positive pressure doesn’t mean under high pressures.
I'm back to thinking ok, crankcase pressure. So where should I look other than the pcv valve? Any other likely candidates? I guess I need to pull the hose off the block and see if it's completely plugged, but it would be strange if the hose is blocked and the valve is ok hey?

EDIT: Oh, I should add that it's obvious from the plugs that it was burning oil for some time before I got it, but it was definitely not noticeable and it got bad really quick... I'll post a pic if I can. I mean, the car was running like a top for the 250km I've actually driven it.
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Are you sure its oil burn and not running SUPER rich? Did you change anything on the PCV system? Do you still have the hose on the valve cover and the hose under the intake manifold that goes from the front of the engine block to the PCV valve that is in the bottom middle of the intake manifold?
A broken or disconnected intake boot after the AFM will cause the car to run really bad. A bad or disconnected CHTS will make your car run really really bad.
Gotta give props here. It was (or really really looks like) it was the CHTS after all. It looked fine but it wasn't- the contacts weren't making a good connection. I'll drive it tomorrow and verify but even with a crap plugs it runs well. Freakin Datsun engineers. 😂

I'm old, and I'm stubborn. But you better never get old enough to learn something.

Cheers kickstand80, if you ever make it to Moncton, I'll buy you a beer... or a coffee. Should have taken your advice on day 1.
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Good for you going back and re-checking things. I just looked where Moncton is and you seem to be 2100 miles/34 hours from me. 34 hours in the Z would be worth the beer!
When I purchased my 1981, I flew into Ontario California, purchased the car at literally midnight, replaced the speedometer (is was bad) so I could have cruze control and drove 1638 miles back to North Dakota. One **** of a shakedown run. I got lucky and the car made it all the way with only a minor running on the warm side issue. But.............................
When I was working on the car one time I managed to dislodge the plug from the CHTS and man did it run like crap! Same thing as you. Plugs foul, smoke. Took me 3 days to find it! People who work on these cars spend 99% of their time on the drivers side of the engine, when I finally looked at the passenger side BAM! there it was.
Gald things worked out.
If you want a set of valve seals I have a couple of extra sets from engine rebuild kits where I did not rebuild the head, just the block.
Craig
Mandan, North Dakota
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Is it confirmation bias when you get an idea in your head and then you start seeing things in a way that supports your preconceived theory? Well, whether it's that or something else, I definitely got a case of that going with this problem. The plugs were so wet and so fouled that combined with some bluish smoke I convinced myself it couldn't be a fueling problem. I must admit that I have quite a bit of experience with carbureted cars and OBD2-era fuel injection systems but almost no experience with primitive fuel injection systems and I have virtually no idea how this system is set up other than the very basics.

It's funny, your ZX road trip purchase story beats mine, which was also a minor adventure. I was in my last year of school, applied for several credit cards, then maxed them all out to buy a 1982 ZX in Massachusetts. On the drive back to Maine the oil pressure gauge dropped to zero driving down the highway which was plenty stressful for a noob kid. I don't have a user manual for that car anymore, but there was actually a troubleshooting section in the manual regarding zero oil pressure reading, and as I recall, it said something like "Check if there is oil in the car. If there is, keep driving." So I did. :)

Man, I knew absolutely nothing back then but I'm making slow progress. 😂

Youtube gives me the impression that your area has a pretty healthy car scene. Mortske, Vice Grip spent a lot of time around there, DD Speed Shop and Halfass Kustoms just across the border... I'm sure I'm forgetting others.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction. I'm not sure I ever would have found it as the connector looked fine from the outside but was green and crusty inside. Luckily the sensor itself tested fine. Took the car for a 50km shakedown today to get some heat into it... no problems at all other than a rare misfire or 2, but this was on the old plugs so I'm saying problem solved!
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If you were just next door, I have a working version of the Kent Moore J-25400 EFI diagnostic computer. Plug it in and it checks all the stuff for you! Look it up, its pretty cool. Maybe someday I can make a Utube video using it, if one of my cars ever goes into a no start condition.......................again. It only a matter of time.
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