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Discussion Starter #1
Well I'm pretty sick of Shanz so, let me teach something besides a wanna be Rustang forum. To start off the United States does not have the best after market in performance parts, Europe and Japan do. Having more racing and performance varibles than any other American Dealer.

Z cars out do performance wise for the fact that they were affordable sports cars that had great aftermarket parts, not to mention they had to kill growth because of smog regulations. AKA Catlytic converter.

Shanz I've seen inline four's that would destroy a **** 5.0 engine and one of them would be the lotus esprit with 300bph, and that was the 93SE, and yes you can find one for about $19,000. Wow! See what you can find when you look.

You must understand most school kids could afford Mustangs instead of Z cars when the market was open to sales. The only reasone you don't still see Z cars and I will be fair, is because they have a poorly designed chassis that is frail in weather. You never however hear of them breaking down because of engine failer. So yeah I guess Z are rusty also. However performance wise you hear more about Datsun's on the race track than you do Mustangs, but hey on the bright side Shanz you may hear of story's of your neighborhood school boy drag racing and perhaps winning.

No, Ford has lost it all, and I feel very sorry that Jaguar was bought out by Ford. They lost the battle against the Corvette ZO6 Vs. SVT Cobra R, BIGTIME! And well if you like to spit tabbaco and watch Dukes of Hazard, and Date Suezy and the nieghborhood highschool boys well then go right on ahead.

The Truth reall is Shanz the Z is coming out next year, and it's has a very short wick and an exsposive temper. I suggest you move your stang before something terrible happens I would hate to see any grown man go through.
 

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Ummm what in the world are you talking about? The Chevy Small block has the largest aftermarket support PERIOD, it has been produced over 60,000,000 units since 1955.

As for the Mustang, the Mustang is a killer in sales, the first year of the Mustang sold 495,000 units that more than the total combined Z production for the 240-Z + 260-Z + 280Z.

The Mustang is the most sold sporty car period, its the most sold car on www.autotrader.com. Stock for Stock its faster than most cars on the market. And one of the easiest to modify.

If your still talking about 5.0s then your living in the past, Ford hasnt made a 5.0 in a Mustang since 1995. The new motors are SOHC and DOHC 2 valve and 4 valve per cylinder 4.6 V-8s. Currently the Cobra pushes 320hp. Come 2003/2004 The Cobra will push 395hp and 380lbs of torque from a N/A motor, the GT will have 310hp. Cobra will cost $32,000. The GT of course will cost less. I highly doubt the Z will be able to run with that kind of power.

As for hearing about the Mustang in racing, Mustangs run in EVERYTHING that they can race in, from the Motorola Cup that pits Camaros, Firebirds, Corvettes, NSXs, Supras, Mustangs, RX7s but no Zs against each other, to Drag racing where stock bodied Mustangs are running 6.7s @ 208mph.

Now as for Ford owning Jaguar, all I can say its ITS ABOUT TIME, Finialy for the first time in their history Jaguar is puting out a QUALITY car that isnt filling your driveway with leaking oil.

Ford also owns part of Mazda and for the first time in 5 years Mazda turned a profit with help from Fords head guys.
 

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Just because someone can dump $40,000 into the engine of a 4 cyl to make it compete with the 8s does not mean that the little 4s are better. I could take a chevy v8 and make it produce a lot of horsepower for far cheaper than turbocharging a nissan 6.

Do some research, for about $3k you can get yourself one **** of a v8 motor, for about $3k you can do a stroker build on a Z and get beat by the 8.

Parts are so widely avalible for v8s its not even funny. Parts are also so **** cheap for v8s that I sometimes wish I had a V8Z. With the nissan 6 you have a couple companies competing with each other, so they can charge up the ass. For v8s you have litterally thousands of companies making parts for them.



I have said it before, and I will say it again. If american v8s are so bad, then why dont you see little honda motors, or nissan motors powering the 6000hp+ top fuel dragsters running the quarter mile in 3 seconds?
 

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Rusttang, Rustang Rustang Big F-ing Deal so why does everyone want a car that everyone else has! They stopped making nice Mustangs in the late 70's actually probably early 70's.
Probably the only reason they are so successful is that it's one of the only semi-muscle cars made with the exception of the Viper but how many can afford $75,000+ for a car!
If Mopar was still producing muscle they would spanking the crap out of good ole F-ed Over Rebuilt Dodges! Just like they always did!!
It's so obvious that mustangs are no longer what they where because now they are classifing them as sports cars!?!?! since when???
If you want muscle go for true muscle and buy pre- 70's! sure you could go with a rustang and it's puny 302 but why not a Mopar with a 426 Hemi producing 424 HP bone stock..
And as for the debate of Ford selling more than Nissan and Honda don't you think that is because neither one makes heavier duty trucks? (about 3 out of 5 construction people have a f150 or 250 )and almost every single rental car company in the world has a fairly sizeable stock of mustangs and ford P/U's????

It's just getting so old hearing about those stupid piece of plastic fall apart peices of junk. Who cares how many are bought and how easy they are to modify...**** you can buy mod kits for Saturns now and make them run pretty fast too but so what!

Okay I better quit ranting I'm just soo sick of hearing of those stupid ass P.O.S's it makes me wanna build up my 240 just to spank on every stang I see!!!!
( Or better yet mount a Cannon on it and blow up every rustang I see!)

Z ya later
Mike K
 

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Your post just shows your ignorance. The late 70s Mustangs where the best? HAHHAHA yeah right, the 74-78 Mustang is considered to be some of the worst Mustangs ever made. The 71-73 cars wernt that great either.

The Dodge 426 hemi made WAY more power than 424hp, they made around 500 or so from the factory. Regardless at the same time Ford offered 427s, 428s and 429s in the Mustang.

The 1984-1986 Ford SVO Mustang was powered by a 2.3 liter iron head/block 2.3 with SOHC and 2 valves per cylinder with turbo and made more HP than the 280ZXT did, and it did it with less displacement and 2 less cylinders. 205hp and 240lbs of torque. It was also lighter than the 280ZXT and handled better.

Highly doubt your can modify your 240-Z to beat a Mustang, because put equal mods on the Stang and it will always be faster. Considering the Z uses that ass backwards designed head that isnt crossflow.

As for Dodges as old muscle cars, yes their bad ass, yes their fast, and yes you'd have to sell your Z just to buy parts for them. Mopars are some of the most expensive muscle cars to get parts for.

Spyder757
 

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Re: Once again F*&K FORD!!!

Your right I have no knoweledge of Rustangs because I have always thought they were SH*T!!!! I hate Ford's and I hate Chevy too!!! I would not own either one and if someone gave me a Mustang even a Shelby I would trade it in for a Japanese or European car because they suck SUCK SUCK!!! Nissan and Honda build way better cars!! I've had both and they have never seen a shop in the 3-4 years I owned each of them can someone driving a F-ing Mustang say the same? DOUBT IT!! I've known people with those junkers who had them in the shop for big jobs in the first year...
If you wanna be a drone like everyone who has to buy a car just because everyone else has one go for it theres at least one extra one out there because I wouldnt buy it!

Z ya later
Mike K
 

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Thank god for all imports......

look at it this way. ford made some bad ass cars in the later 60's and early 70's...thats it, period thats it. now the late 70's they made crap, along with all the other american car producers. thats why imports even became popular, they were dependable and affordable. ford is NOW being forced to actually make quailty cars because they are using japan's idea of a motor. look at fords new mustangs they are all DOHC. japan has not used the Pushrods in a long time, americans still are...why? japan has a lot better technology than us right now thats why the 4cyl motors can produce alomst as much power as a v8(when both modified). Its kinda funny, Spyder you said that the 2.3 turbo SVO mustang was alot better that the 280zxt....look at the price the svo was alot more. here is a match up according to your price match.... the 1990mustang GT compared to the 1990 300zxTT.....oh man there is no comparisson the z blows the mustang out of the water. so if you going to compare somthing like that...use some thing around the same price range. but, dont get me wrong...americans NOW are producing alot better power and gas milage...but just at the expense of the Japaneese.
later
brian
 

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Re: Once again F*&K FORD!!!

ANd your basing this on what? Certain models of Hondas are relable, and certain models of Nissan are relable but all of them? Ummm give me a break. Results with Hondas very, some people get really good ones, other people get really crappy ones dosnt seem to be anyway to tell them appart. The old 'iron duke' 4 banger produced by Chevy and used in the Celeberty will run **** near forever, i've seen Celebertys with over 200,000+ miles, pretty? nope, but one of the most relable machines every made. Its a well known fact Jap. transmissions are garbage. You ever seen a Chevy with a broke down 700R4? Not likely, they see 200,000+ miles of service in some of the toughest conditions ever.... Polce cars.
My dad had a 1989 Ford Ranger 2.3 with a 5 speed, he sold it with 178,000 miles, still had the orgional clutch in it. My friends Dad had a Toyota pickup with almost 300,000 miles on it, never mind the fact it had 2 engine swaps and 3 transmission swaps.Guy i work with has a 1982 Crossfire Injected Camaro, 168,000 miles still runs like a top, and still will burn a Z from stop light to stop light no problem. If you wana contunie this arguement i can go pull the Consumer Reports with owner satisfaction and reliableity but you wont like the results for Honda and Nissan. Toyota yes, they build a very good product, but Honda and Nissan are nothing special.

Spyder757
 

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ignorance.

SIGH, why do you have to keep bringing up your WRONG infomation? Contrary to what you rice boys think Japan did NOT invent OHC motors, Jaguar used them in the 50s, and they were in use way before that by many many many automakers back when the Japenses were still pulling each other around in cariages. Ford used DOHC 4 bangers extensivly in europe in the 1970s and won races with them, in the 1980s. Please name me ONE peice of 'new' technology that the Japense invented for cars. I would really love to hear this. OHC arnt new, varable valve timing was first offered by American aircraft manufacture in 1940s, it was first offered on a car, well truck to be specific by American truck manufacture in 1973, Fuel injection has been in use for well over 50 years, infact some of the 1957 Corvettes were fuel injected, FWD was done by Cord in the 1930s, and Oldsmoble in the 1960s, all alumium turbo charged motors were done by Oldsmoblie in the 1960s. You need further proof that you dont need overhead cams to be the best? scrool down to the bottom of the page.

This little Ford the RS200 made in 1986 produced 610hp from a 2.2 liter DOHC 4 valve per cylinder turbo charged 4 cylinder. It was also all wheel drive, mid engined and about the size of an MR2. Need I remind you what Japanese automakers were making in 1986?


This is the Ford Escourt made in the 1980s and aviable in Europe, it was RWD, and used a turbo charged DOHC 4 valve per cylinder 4 cylinder. It makes more power than any version of the Silvia.




Wana know something funny? The Ford Mustang Cobra makes 320hp, the Camaro makes 325hp, who wins the race? The Camaro hands down by several car lenghts. Why? Because its got something you cant get from smaller displacement motors.... TORQUE. The Camaro makes 325hp at 2000rpms LOWER than the Mustang, its no contest. The same is true for the Honda S2000. Sure it makes 240hp but it only makes 153lbs of torque, thats a joke. For $1,800 you can buy a V-8 crate motor that makes 380hp and 380lbs of torque, you ahve 310lbs of that torque aviable at 2,000rpm.

So you have to MODIFY a 4 cylinder to make the same HP as a V-8? Ok so you can go buy your new 4 banger, dup $15,000+ and void your warrenty into it just to make it run with a stock car? Honda's engines are of an open deck design that dont lend themselves to performance, to even run anything other than mild boost on one you have to open it up, weld in a plate, then have it machined down to spec. ANd rebuild the whole motor. Hardly seems worth it. ANd if you put equal mods on the V-8 the V-8 will always come out on top. 347 Ford V-8s are running 1,200hp to 1,400hp with single turbos. 406 Ford V-8s are running 1,600hp with single turbos and running 6.7s @ 208mph. Fastest Honda which was a TUBE frame runs 9s @ 150mph or so.

NOW PRESENTING, THE WORLD CHAMPION OF GTS ALL THE WAY FROM LEMANS THE 3 TIME SERISES WINNER AND MANFACTURES CHAMPIONSHIP.

THE DOOOODDDDDGGGGGGEEEE VIPER!!!!!
The Dodge Viper has won 3 years stright sweeping every race they go too. It beats back the best the world has to offer including the Porche 911TT. It uses a 8 liter V-10 with 2 valves per cylinder and push rods, but how can this be? I thought you needed VTACKY and DOHC stickers on your car to win races.

What are the most powerful engines in racing? Top Fuel Drag motors. Producing 6,000hp. I'm sure a twin turbo inline 6 from a Skyline or a Civic SI motor with VTEC can take on one of theses monsters. uhhh huhhh.

Spyder757
 

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I'd also like to add....

I'd just like to add that your response turned from a debate to you just talking nonsense, you have to proof to back any of your statements up, and turn to just generic bashing general of a rice boy in a parking lot before he gets his ass handed to him on the street.

Spyder757
 

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Re: ignorance.

Dude there are silvias running the 1/4 mile in 9 sec with stock bodies no weight reduction.
what's the top speed on a street mustang??
 

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your sick of me??? i made one **** post on that topic. i love my z and would'nt trade it for anything. but i also would not trade my 5.0 for anything either. i said the mustang is a great sports car. i never dogged the z, and now you wanna jump my sh$t!! most of your post has nothing to do with what i said. by the way i am in denver, you wanna settle this then race me!!! i promise you my z will destroy anything you come up with. title for title boy, i'll take your car and your wallet. it has been 10 years since i bought my first z and i have owned 7 since then, who the **** are you to treat me like a Z hater?? oh and stupid, i never once compared the mustang to the z. i still can't figure out what you are talking about, oh wait you like chevy's so you must be brain dead! dukes of hazzard WTF??????? you are really pissing me off, you better have one **** of a fast car to back up your @!#$ talking pal. tell me what did i say to warrant this???



shane
 

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Re: ignorance.

The Silvia your talking about is made by JUN and it isnt even remotely stock body, everytine inside is stripped out. I used to have a Sport Compact Car that covered it. The motor dosnt even sport anything from the factory aside from the block and head itself and even those have been reworked.

Spyder757
 

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Re: ignorance.

Big sigh, gentlemen, why ruin a great site with petty statements. Everyone has a right to his/her opinion. Mustangs, Camaros, vettes, Z's, Porsches whatever all have good and bad points. Best way to resolve conflict is on the track with professional drivers. I guess the older I get, the mellower I get until I get in my vette or daughters 300zxt. The best thing in life next to s$x is a mans machine. Both are full of enjoyment if handled properly. You all have a great and wonderzfull weekend
 

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Re: ignorance.YOUR acting kinda dumb

i am not trying to be better...or say Z's or whatever are better than your mustangs..i am simply giving a opinion...come on man. later
brian
 

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no one said anything about NEW tech....

He said they have BETTER technolgy. Another thing there is no way american cars are better quality and more reliable the imports, think about it look at them both as a whole(all models all years) like I said no freakin way. About the backwards L-seris head do i have to compare it to the FORD I-6 they used in the 60s 70s and early 80s? not cross flow, intake exhaust on he same side, andd the intake manifold is part of the heads casting now how stupid is that????? If your compare companys to see whos best you dont just compare their best stuff to other companys regular stuff. you gotta compare it all even the companys crap(sorry ford your srewed). Ford made junk and they know it, thats why they made those great cars over in europe beacuse they knew the crap they make here just woulndt cut it over there.


BTW I saw some import drag racing on tv yester day and today, they are low 8sec tube frame hondas. also there was a 9 sec honda with out a tube frame I remember the driver saying "first unibody in the 9's" like you say do your research.

Justin T
1980 280ZX 10th AE
 

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Re: ignorance.YOUR acting kinda dumb

It sure seems that way to me. I want YOU to explain to me what all theses great 'new technologys' that Japan has brought the automotive world please I really want to see theses.

Spyder757
 

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Re: no one said anything about NEW tech....

The Ford Inline 6 isnt a performance engine, it never was sold as a performance engine. The inline 6 with a non cross flowing head is the best the Z offered so it would be compared to the Ford V-8 not the inline 6. You know something about the Ford inline 6 though? Its bullet proof relable infact it has 7 main bearings that more bearing support than even the Skylines motor has. Infact the engines have earned such a reputation for being tough their used in boats. Pushing a couple thousand pound boat is hard work.

You wana compare everything an automakers ever made lets start looking at Nissans NX Pulsa, the POS Sentra and Altima made in the 1980s first all the paint peels off in huge sheets leaving weird looking 'racing stripes' then the lifters go and it starts burning oil, i've never seen one of theses in decent shape.

Yes there is a Honda in the 8s now its completely tube framed witha fiberglass bodied set on top of it for the ride. So what do we have here a tube framed funny car at the top of its game running 8s okkkkk lets pit them against the top of its game tube framed fiberglass bodied dometic. John Force can run 4s @ 317mph Thats about 4 seconds and 160mph off of what a domestic is currently running. Some top fuelers are even running in the 3 second range now. The fastest 'unibody' Honda as they call it is a tube frame too, the whole thing is gutted, parts of the floorpan have been removed onlything holding the whole car together is the roll cage.

Spyder757
 

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Discussion Starter #19
You moron! I'm talking about the Lotus Espirt (British) Sports car that was made back in 93 that had a Inline 4. Not a nissan! However a 1995 240sx has a inline four and can be tuned to 400hp!

Unless you know what your talking about, don't do combat!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Re: ignorance.

Dummy! The RS2000 cost about $70,000. You can buy a Stillen Z that can produce 800hp to your sad @ss 610hp. And for your case I'm knocking Rustangs not Chevys! **** can't you people read!!!!!!
 
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