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post #11 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 08:05 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

jeffp wrote:

"I have mixed thoughts on this part myself. Seems to me it would be best utilized in a car that will see hard cornoring. Additionally, a car running that way would also do very well with a oilpressure stabilizer tank as well.

I dont have that part on my engine, and I am not all that excited about the way inwich the part is installed. I would like to see a scraper installed to cover the whole rotating assembly, secured by dowl pins in four places, and finally sealed in between the oil pan and block. I don't like the main cap bolts used to secure the part.
The scraper dovetails right in with knife edgging the crank and all that expensive work.

Alot of work to get it right, but beneficial none the less."

-------------------------

First, scraper technology is utilized in many stock engines from the past 50 years. The modern engines I have examined all utilize this technology in some way. That's run of the mill stock engines.

Be very careful with oilpressure stabilizing tanks. You have to remember the original problem they were intended to protect against -- the introduction of neat air into the pickup tube. I would say that most air/oil failures result from the presence of too much entrained air in the oil rather than neat air. The dynamics that introduced that air into the oil can be easily exacerbated by the addition of more oil which is what happens when the stabilizer activates.

The way in which the part is installed is an OEM technique. Examples can be seen in the Suzuki G13B and the BMW M54. The M54 won numerous engineering awards, by the way.

There are, of course, many ways to design a scraper. I assure you that many people prefer an alternate method to capturing it between the pan and block. I normally suggest using dowel pins to locate such designs to racers who will be inspecting the bottom end often.

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post #12 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 08:15 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

Frank280Z wrote:

"uuuhm no they dont give HP 0 nada nothing!!!
A windage tray saves the engine under hard cornering ... not free up HP , neither does a scraper .. these are not HP items"


I recently corresponded with someone from Nismo. The SR20 and KA24de both have girdles. Careful testing has shown that the presence of the girdles alone costs about 5% of engine output due to windage loss. In the SR20, that's about 8hp.

That's not even dealing with scrapers -- which can be found in the SR20 and KA24DE, by the way.

That's not even dealing with windage trays -- which can be found in the SR20 and KA24de, by the way.

I say it many times -- scraper technology is extremely well supported empirically and its use is subsumed by professional automotive engineers. Including Nissan engineers.
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post #13 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 08:20 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

240zcar wrote:

"It aint gonna do a dang thing for performance. Its strictly a braggart item."

Boy, I wish you would speak to the SCCA -- they clearly regulate them as performance parts.

Many circle tracks specifically ban them because they are too much of an unfair advantage in low-buck racing.

Anyway...
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post #14 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 09:57 PM
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???

"Typically only good for up to ~15HP tops, so you wouldn't notice a seat of the pants difference."

Light cars with high revving engines even? My buddy marc put one in his GT3 Corvair, and was asking me 'does it make sense that it seems to be coming out of corners harder?'

Seems like Marc noticed something...

Did I? Nope, but I know it's in there, stripping windage, and keeping oil in the pan, where it can be sucked up by the pickup and used again quickly.

In high speed rotating equipment, adding a windage tray on gearmesh engagement areas of a 300HP gearbox resulted in an IMMEDIATE 25HP reduction in power required to drive the geartrain. This mean that horsepower could be used for making end product, and not as internal, parasitic losses to simply drive the rotating assembly.

Same theory applies in this case as well.


Though some here claim they can feel a 15 to 25hp increase (Pop Charger, Hot Coil, Headers....)

The Butt-Dyno Lies all the time. My Fairlady FELT a LOT faster with the Webers, Headers, and open exhaust. But it made 90 RWHP. Putting on the stock EFI, etc etc etc and the DYNO said it then produced 147 RWHP.

But it FELT a lot slower.

To repeat: The Butt-Dyno Lies...


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post #15 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-18-2007, 10:00 PM
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Skip it Kevin...

Some people are simply idiots, and will throw stones out of ignorance.

Like the apes on "2001" they all sit there scratching themselves and screeching at the occasional interloper that tries to show them how to make fire.

Engineering Understanding is not a highpoint here...


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post #16 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 12:11 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

Hey Kevin, I said that you offered to cut the part correctly. I remember you saying I had to ship it back because there is no way a photo would allow you to know where it needs to be cut. I would have just had to grind on the new part as well if you did it by a poor quality photo.
Anyway in my engine at least I saw no improvement, maybe others will have different results. Not trying to hurt your product just merely relaying my own experiences.
BTW, I'll be sure to add a Privacy Clause to all my future email correspondences so that a company doesn't throw up personal emails onto the worldwide web.That is REALLY a poor business practice dude and my lawyer probably would agree.



Post Edited (Mar 18, 9:14pm)

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post #17 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 07:31 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

Norm wrote:

"Hey Kevin, I said that you offered to cut the part correctly. I remember you saying I had to ship it back because there is no way a photo would allow you to know where it needs to be cut. I would have just had to grind on the new part as well if you did it by a poor quality photo.
Anyway in my engine at least I saw no improvement, maybe others will have different results. Not trying to hurt your product just merely relaying my own experiences.
BTW, I'll be sure to add a Privacy Clause to all my future email correspondences so that a company doesn't throw up personal emails onto the worldwide web.That is REALLY a poor business practice dude and my lawyer probably would agree."

Norm,

All I am trying to do is relay your experiences as they actually happened versus how you misremember them and transmit same on the World Wide Web to the detriment of my business.

By the way, I took 75 minutes out of my day to watch the YouTube video you have linked. I agree with you.

Kind regards,

Kevin Johnson
Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers

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post #18 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 10:17 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

Hey Kevin, as I said I wasn't trying to hurt your business in any way as I was sharing MY OWN personal experience and I stated that oil scrapers do work it just didn't offer any gains on my engine..Also, how could you have cut the scraper properly from just pictures, you couldn't have??
I was trying to save you the trouble since I would have had to still grind on the new part as well.
I don't see how you could have done it with pics when you have 1mm clearance to play with. I had to grind all over the part especially around the rod bolts to make it clear.I stand by my statement that using personal emails as web fodder is a very poor business practice.

BTW glad you liked the GW video.

If you wanna see something a lot funnier then watch this short 84 second video I shot Saturday night.

CLICK HERE FOR MY VIDEO RESPONSE TO THE MORON


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post #19 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 10:54 AM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

"Hey Kevin, as I said I wasn't trying to hurt your business in any way as I was sharing MY OWN personal experience and I stated that oil scrapers do work it just didn't offer any gains on my engine..Also, how could you have cut the scraper properly from just pictures, you couldn't have??
I was trying to save you the trouble since I would have had to still grind on the new part as well.
I don't see how you could have done it with pics when you have 1mm clearance to play with. I had to grind all over the part especially around the rod bolts to make it clear.I stand by my statement that using personal emails as web fodder is a very poor business practice.

BTW glad you liked the GW video.

If you wanna see something a lot funnier then watch this short 84 second video I shot Saturday night."

Norm,

The personal experience you were and are sharing is not quite what actually occured -- that's the problem. I think I have been very patient and understanding but this is the second time it has happened. Perhaps it has happened more often -- I follow over a hundred websites but certainly cannot monitor them all. I am quite sure if the situation were reversed you would have little hesitation to quote or reprint an email from a vendor.*

[*Aside: in fact this happens quite often -- not by you per se but I often find special quotes I have given to people reprinted on lists.]

If you reread the emails I sent to you I included a jpeg of the pattern -- that is a 1:1 image with no distortion inherent in pictures. You could simply place your scraper on top of it and trace. I have made a few hundred patterns this way.

Kind regards,

Kevin Johnson
Ishihara-Johnson Crank Scrapers



Post Edited (Mar 19, 8:00am)
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post #20 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-19-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: Crank Scrapers

If I misunderstood the need for return shipment then I apologize for that mistatement

But basically you still sent me a part the first time around that was misadvertised as a stroker crankshaft scraper. You didn't do the proper research before selling a part that was not suited for the stated application.That's a poor business practice in and of itself. Yes you offered to fix the problem, but it should have been at least close to being right for the application when you first sold the part.
When all was said and done I was able to adjust the part to within the 1mm limit you described and I only had to build up two of the areas with epoxy.

Also you keep missing the point that I have stated that crankshaft scrapers have been shown to work in some engines. However, it did not show any benefits in my particular engine.

If you have emails from individuals with L6 series engines who have seen track times improve or HP improve on a dyno after the addition of your crankscraper then please post those in this thread as a counter to my own experience.


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