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Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: norm(The 12 sec Dual SU Dude)
Date: June 27, 2009 08:20PM
[www.independent.co.uk]
Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
By Tony Paterson
Friday, 26 June 2009
The Germans may have given the world the Audi and the autobahn, but they have banished everything with four wheels and an engine from the streets of Vauban a model brave new world of a community in the country's south-west, next to the borders with Switzerland and France.
In Vauban, a suburb of the university town of Freiburg, luxuriant beds of brilliant flowers replace what would normally be parking outside its neat, middle- class homes. Instead of the roar of traffic, the residents listen to birdsong, children playing and the occasional jingle of a bicycle bell.
"If you want to have a car here, you have to pay about 20,000 for a space in one of our garages on the outskirts of the district," says Andreas Delleske one of the founders and now a promoter of the Vauban project, "but about 57 per cent of the residents sold a car to enjoy the privilege of living here." As a result, most residents travel by bike or use the ultra-efficient tram service that connects the suburb with the centre of Freiburg, 15 minutes away. If they want a car to go on holiday or to shift things, they hire one or join one of the town's car-sharing schemes.
Because it has no cars, Vauban's planners have almost completely dispensed with the idea of metalled roads. Its streets and pathways are cobbled or gritted and vehicles are allowed in only for a matter of minutes to unload essential goods. Being virtually car-free is only the start of what has been hailed as one of Europe's most successful experiments in green living and one which is viewed increasingly as a blueprint for a future and perhaps essential way of living in an age of climate change.
Vauban is a southern suburb of Freiburg and home to 5,300 people. Its elegant, weather-boarded, four-storey homes are painted in subtle tones of blue, yellow and red or left as natural wood. They have wide balconies and large French windows that look out on to quiet, park-like gardens. The overall impression is of being stuck in a never-ending IKEA advertisement.
But if the district's surface texture is eminently middle class, an eco-revolution is bubbling beneath the surface. The windows of all the homes are triple-glazed. An intricate ventilation system fitted with heat exchangers ensures that apartments are kept constantly topped-up with fresh air at room temperature, even when the windows are shut. Most homes are powered by solar panels and smart co-generator engines that run on wood chips which provide domestic heating and electricity for lighting and appliances. One of the consequences is that most of Vauban's homes generate a surplus of electricity and sell what they don't need to the power companies that run the national and regional electricity grids.
With their 35cm thick walls, the homes are so well insulated that the temperature inside is directly affected by the number of people in each apartment. "If it gets too cold in the winter, you have the choice of turning up the heating or inviting a couple of friends round to dinner," Delleske says. He is immensely proud of the fact that his 90sqm, four-roomed "Passive house," which is almost environmentally perfect, costs a mere 114 a year to heat. "Most people pay that kind of money for heating each month," he says. The "Passive house" has even managed to dispense with drains for the toilets and showers. The waste is reduced to compost in special biological toilets and shower and washing-up water is filtered and used to water the garden.
Word about the Vauban experiment is spreading. Each day, six or seven busloads of visitors roll up parking on the outskirts, needless to say to witness the suburb's environmentally friendly living. At the entrance, they are greeted by slogan in big letters that reads: "We are creating the world we want."
Yet the suburb's origins were very remote from such idealistic themes. It started life in 1937 as the Leo Schlageter army barracks, a collection of three-storey stone buildings to house Adolf Hitler's expanding Wehrmacht army. It was named after a German hero from the First World War who was executed by the French in 1923. At the end of the Second World War, the barracks were requisitioned by the French army and renamed Quartier Vauban, after a noted 17th century military architect. After Germany's re-unification, the French withdrew and the district was handed over to the city of Freiburg in 1994, to be promptly occupied by squatters.
Soon after, a group of ecologically minded and mostly middle-class people became interested in the quarter. Many had taken part in the anti-nuclear movement as students in the 1970s and 1980s. They set up the Forum Vauban, which began negotiating with the city government.
Vauban's founders explain that much of the eco-friendly technology that has gone into the complex was conceived and developed around Freiburg as an alternative to nuclear power. The upshot was the formation of a series of loosely structured housing associations which commissioned architects to design new and ecologically sustainable homes on the site. Most of the old Nazi-era barrack buildings were torn down and more than 60 architects were engaged to reconstruct Vauban. Its three- to five-storey buildings contain apartments of varying sizes and 80 per cent are privately owned. A four-bedroom unit costs about 250,000.
The project is a reminder of the strength of Germany's green movement. Freiburg's city government is run by a coalition of conservatives and Green Party councillors and the Greens hold the most seats. During the European elections, the Green Party won up to 60 per cent of the poll in Vauban's constituencies.
The district also bucks Germany's reputation for having one of the world's lowest birth rates: nearly 30 per cent of its inhabitants are aged under 18. Ute and Frank Lits moved to Vauban five years ago. Their children, aged six and 10, can walk out the front door of their four-bedroom apartment into a communal garden equipped with a playground and a wood-fired pizza oven. "We wanted to buy our own home and we liked the eco-friendly principles of the place," Mrs Lits said. "But the main reason is that Vauban is prefect for children. They enjoy the kind of freedom that it would be difficult to find in a normal town apartment." The couple owns a car, but neither mind having to park it in a communal garage eight minutes' walk from their home.
If Vauban's brave new world suffers from anything, it is its own peculiar brand of middle-class monoculturalism. Sitting outside a former Nazi barrack building that now functions as an organic restaurant selling ricotta-filled ravioli and ostrich meat, its is difficult to spot anyone who is non-European, old or poor.
Wolfgang Konradi, a youth worker who spent years working in less sophisticated urban areas before coming to Vauban, says the district's teenagers behave like normal people of their age. "The problem is mainly the parents, they go around expecting their offspring to be perfect citizens, but that's just not realistic," he laments. Ina, his wife, said that since having their son, she had learned to appreciate the advantages that Vauban offered for children. But she added: "It's very nice here, but a bit like living under a bell jar. I certainly wouldn't want to live here forever."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2009:06:27:20:22:23.
Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
By Tony Paterson
Friday, 26 June 2009
The Germans may have given the world the Audi and the autobahn, but they have banished everything with four wheels and an engine from the streets of Vauban a model brave new world of a community in the country's south-west, next to the borders with Switzerland and France.
In Vauban, a suburb of the university town of Freiburg, luxuriant beds of brilliant flowers replace what would normally be parking outside its neat, middle- class homes. Instead of the roar of traffic, the residents listen to birdsong, children playing and the occasional jingle of a bicycle bell.
"If you want to have a car here, you have to pay about 20,000 for a space in one of our garages on the outskirts of the district," says Andreas Delleske one of the founders and now a promoter of the Vauban project, "but about 57 per cent of the residents sold a car to enjoy the privilege of living here." As a result, most residents travel by bike or use the ultra-efficient tram service that connects the suburb with the centre of Freiburg, 15 minutes away. If they want a car to go on holiday or to shift things, they hire one or join one of the town's car-sharing schemes.
Because it has no cars, Vauban's planners have almost completely dispensed with the idea of metalled roads. Its streets and pathways are cobbled or gritted and vehicles are allowed in only for a matter of minutes to unload essential goods. Being virtually car-free is only the start of what has been hailed as one of Europe's most successful experiments in green living and one which is viewed increasingly as a blueprint for a future and perhaps essential way of living in an age of climate change.
Vauban is a southern suburb of Freiburg and home to 5,300 people. Its elegant, weather-boarded, four-storey homes are painted in subtle tones of blue, yellow and red or left as natural wood. They have wide balconies and large French windows that look out on to quiet, park-like gardens. The overall impression is of being stuck in a never-ending IKEA advertisement.
But if the district's surface texture is eminently middle class, an eco-revolution is bubbling beneath the surface. The windows of all the homes are triple-glazed. An intricate ventilation system fitted with heat exchangers ensures that apartments are kept constantly topped-up with fresh air at room temperature, even when the windows are shut. Most homes are powered by solar panels and smart co-generator engines that run on wood chips which provide domestic heating and electricity for lighting and appliances. One of the consequences is that most of Vauban's homes generate a surplus of electricity and sell what they don't need to the power companies that run the national and regional electricity grids.
With their 35cm thick walls, the homes are so well insulated that the temperature inside is directly affected by the number of people in each apartment. "If it gets too cold in the winter, you have the choice of turning up the heating or inviting a couple of friends round to dinner," Delleske says. He is immensely proud of the fact that his 90sqm, four-roomed "Passive house," which is almost environmentally perfect, costs a mere 114 a year to heat. "Most people pay that kind of money for heating each month," he says. The "Passive house" has even managed to dispense with drains for the toilets and showers. The waste is reduced to compost in special biological toilets and shower and washing-up water is filtered and used to water the garden.
Word about the Vauban experiment is spreading. Each day, six or seven busloads of visitors roll up parking on the outskirts, needless to say to witness the suburb's environmentally friendly living. At the entrance, they are greeted by slogan in big letters that reads: "We are creating the world we want."
Yet the suburb's origins were very remote from such idealistic themes. It started life in 1937 as the Leo Schlageter army barracks, a collection of three-storey stone buildings to house Adolf Hitler's expanding Wehrmacht army. It was named after a German hero from the First World War who was executed by the French in 1923. At the end of the Second World War, the barracks were requisitioned by the French army and renamed Quartier Vauban, after a noted 17th century military architect. After Germany's re-unification, the French withdrew and the district was handed over to the city of Freiburg in 1994, to be promptly occupied by squatters.
Soon after, a group of ecologically minded and mostly middle-class people became interested in the quarter. Many had taken part in the anti-nuclear movement as students in the 1970s and 1980s. They set up the Forum Vauban, which began negotiating with the city government.
Vauban's founders explain that much of the eco-friendly technology that has gone into the complex was conceived and developed around Freiburg as an alternative to nuclear power. The upshot was the formation of a series of loosely structured housing associations which commissioned architects to design new and ecologically sustainable homes on the site. Most of the old Nazi-era barrack buildings were torn down and more than 60 architects were engaged to reconstruct Vauban. Its three- to five-storey buildings contain apartments of varying sizes and 80 per cent are privately owned. A four-bedroom unit costs about 250,000.
The project is a reminder of the strength of Germany's green movement. Freiburg's city government is run by a coalition of conservatives and Green Party councillors and the Greens hold the most seats. During the European elections, the Green Party won up to 60 per cent of the poll in Vauban's constituencies.
The district also bucks Germany's reputation for having one of the world's lowest birth rates: nearly 30 per cent of its inhabitants are aged under 18. Ute and Frank Lits moved to Vauban five years ago. Their children, aged six and 10, can walk out the front door of their four-bedroom apartment into a communal garden equipped with a playground and a wood-fired pizza oven. "We wanted to buy our own home and we liked the eco-friendly principles of the place," Mrs Lits said. "But the main reason is that Vauban is prefect for children. They enjoy the kind of freedom that it would be difficult to find in a normal town apartment." The couple owns a car, but neither mind having to park it in a communal garage eight minutes' walk from their home.
If Vauban's brave new world suffers from anything, it is its own peculiar brand of middle-class monoculturalism. Sitting outside a former Nazi barrack building that now functions as an organic restaurant selling ricotta-filled ravioli and ostrich meat, its is difficult to spot anyone who is non-European, old or poor.
Wolfgang Konradi, a youth worker who spent years working in less sophisticated urban areas before coming to Vauban, says the district's teenagers behave like normal people of their age. "The problem is mainly the parents, they go around expecting their offspring to be perfect citizens, but that's just not realistic," he laments. Ina, his wife, said that since having their son, she had learned to appreciate the advantages that Vauban offered for children. But she added: "It's very nice here, but a bit like living under a bell jar. I certainly wouldn't want to live here forever."
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2009:06:27:20:22:23.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Zazupilot
Date: June 27, 2009 09:05PM
List of car free zones in the United States:
Bald Head Island, NC
Monhegan Island, ME
Mackinac Island, MI
Russell Island, MI
Tangier Island, VA
Arcosanti, AZ
Catalina Island, CA
Branson Landing district, Brason, MO
Fire Island, NY
Roosevelt Island, NY
Daufuskie Island, SC
Venice Canals, Venice, CA
Old Town Fort Collins, CO
San Antonio River Walk, San Antonio, TX
2010 ZCON in Nashville
middletennesseezclub.com - nissansportmag.com
Add to the Map of Ethanol Free Gas stations!
Bald Head Island, NC
Monhegan Island, ME
Mackinac Island, MI
Russell Island, MI
Tangier Island, VA
Arcosanti, AZ
Catalina Island, CA
Branson Landing district, Brason, MO
Fire Island, NY
Roosevelt Island, NY
Daufuskie Island, SC
Venice Canals, Venice, CA
Old Town Fort Collins, CO
San Antonio River Walk, San Antonio, TX
2010 ZCON in Nashville
middletennesseezclub.com - nissansportmag.com
Add to the Map of Ethanol Free Gas stations!
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: erzelda
Date: June 27, 2009 09:27PM
Gee -
just think they could have a pastoral setting with goat carts, then pony carts and horses and carriages -
oh -
we used to have that -
and a lot of horse crap too -
and cholora, and typhoid and other diseses -
but then the consolation is the fresh air -
ok fresh crap in the air -
but that makes things green and its just better -
isn't it?
just think they could have a pastoral setting with goat carts, then pony carts and horses and carriages -
oh -
we used to have that -
and a lot of horse crap too -
and cholora, and typhoid and other diseses -
but then the consolation is the fresh air -
ok fresh crap in the air -
but that makes things green and its just better -
isn't it?
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: slipangle
Date: June 28, 2009 04:00AM
Zazupilot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> List of car free zones in the United States:
.......
> Catalina Island, CA
......
You'll have to scratch Catalina Island off that list. It may be car-restricted, but certainly not car free.
-------------------------------------------------------
> List of car free zones in the United States:
.......
> Catalina Island, CA
......
You'll have to scratch Catalina Island off that list. It may be car-restricted, but certainly not car free.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: norm(The 12 sec Dual SU Dude)
Date: June 28, 2009 05:01AM
You forgot Times Square. I saw on TV last week where they were making an area around Times Square car free.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Junkman
Date: June 28, 2009 05:41AM
Parts of Chicago are so jammed with cars that they are useless & nothing would be lost by eliminating them. Parts of TN are nearly car free but they are nearly people free. People free is the way to go.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: z240zdude
Date: June 28, 2009 07:22AM
erzelda Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gee -
>
> just think they could have a pastoral setting with
> goat carts, then pony carts and horses and
> carriages -
>
> oh -
>
> we used to have that -
>
> and a lot of horse crap too -
>
> and cholora, and typhoid and other diseses -
>
> but then the consolation is the fresh air -
>
> ok fresh crap in the air -
>
> but that makes things green and its just better -
>
> isn't it?
yeah but given the current administration they're going to want to carbon tax cows and the methane they give off from the poo they give off. Heck it's just exhaust isn't it?
Dave
12/70 240Z,L-28,flat-tops,E-31 head,BRE 311 cam,SK carbs,6-1 headers,3"exhaust,ZX ignition,early 5-speed,R-180,4:11 gears,903 Blue paint.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Gee -
>
> just think they could have a pastoral setting with
> goat carts, then pony carts and horses and
> carriages -
>
> oh -
>
> we used to have that -
>
> and a lot of horse crap too -
>
> and cholora, and typhoid and other diseses -
>
> but then the consolation is the fresh air -
>
> ok fresh crap in the air -
>
> but that makes things green and its just better -
>
> isn't it?
yeah but given the current administration they're going to want to carbon tax cows and the methane they give off from the poo they give off. Heck it's just exhaust isn't it?
Dave
12/70 240Z,L-28,flat-tops,E-31 head,BRE 311 cam,SK carbs,6-1 headers,3"exhaust,ZX ignition,early 5-speed,R-180,4:11 gears,903 Blue paint.
Terribly Misleading Title
Posted by: Tony D
Date: June 28, 2009 08:12AM
This has been the norm in Japan for years: restricted vechile access.
NOBODY living there was forced to give up anthing. The community was built aroudn the concept, and people CHOSE to live there.
I see nothing wrong with it, and frankly it's kind of nice to know your car is secured ina garage nearby (within walking distance).
Sorry, I'm not Steve Martin in California Story, who has to start my car to drive down to the end of the driveway to pick up the morning paper, then drive back to the garage...
I think the saddest part of this whole thread is that people seem to be deriding other people for a CHOICE THEY HAVE MADE TO LIVE A SPECIFIC WAY.
Nobody was forced to give up anything, they CHOSE to live there, for whatever reason.
And yes, Mackinaw Island has Horses. But during the winter when the tourists aren't around, you have snomobiles.
Many places in the cities of Japan have restricted delivery times, no-car times, and K-Car times (when only the microcars are allowed to enter a specific area).
It works. If you don't like it, don't live there. How hard is that to figure out?
People here simply want feel good answers. Don't confuse them with FACTS, Dammit!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
You simply can't call someone a F**ktard here, no matter how truthful it is.
Stupidity is contagious, and looks like it's pandemic here...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2009:06:28:08:16:08.
NOBODY living there was forced to give up anthing. The community was built aroudn the concept, and people CHOSE to live there.
I see nothing wrong with it, and frankly it's kind of nice to know your car is secured ina garage nearby (within walking distance).
Sorry, I'm not Steve Martin in California Story, who has to start my car to drive down to the end of the driveway to pick up the morning paper, then drive back to the garage...
I think the saddest part of this whole thread is that people seem to be deriding other people for a CHOICE THEY HAVE MADE TO LIVE A SPECIFIC WAY.
Nobody was forced to give up anything, they CHOSE to live there, for whatever reason.
And yes, Mackinaw Island has Horses. But during the winter when the tourists aren't around, you have snomobiles.
Many places in the cities of Japan have restricted delivery times, no-car times, and K-Car times (when only the microcars are allowed to enter a specific area).
It works. If you don't like it, don't live there. How hard is that to figure out?
People here simply want feel good answers. Don't confuse them with FACTS, Dammit!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
You simply can't call someone a F**ktard here, no matter how truthful it is.
Stupidity is contagious, and looks like it's pandemic here...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2009:06:28:08:16:08.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: escangelion
Date: June 28, 2009 10:56AM
Old Town Fort Collins car free? HAHAHAHAHA!
If you reeeaaaallly want to get anal about it, I guess that one block diagonal section that was converted into a pedestrian park with trees, benches, sculptures, a refreshment shop, a fountain with a performance stage, an ice skating rink in the winter can be counted as a car free zone.
And maaayyyybeee the back access alleys could be counted since they're only used by garbage trucks, employees and tenants who want to park they're cars in their designated lots.
If you reeeaaaallly want to get anal about it, I guess that one block diagonal section that was converted into a pedestrian park with trees, benches, sculptures, a refreshment shop, a fountain with a performance stage, an ice skating rink in the winter can be counted as a car free zone.
And maaayyyybeee the back access alleys could be counted since they're only used by garbage trucks, employees and tenants who want to park they're cars in their designated lots.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Zazupilot
Date: June 28, 2009 02:54PM
escangelion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Town Fort Collins car free? HAHAHAHAHA!
>
>
> If you reeeaaaallly want to get anal about it, I
> guess that one block diagonal section that was
> converted into a pedestrian park with trees,
> benches, sculptures, a refreshment shop, a
> fountain with a performance stage, an ice skating
> rink in the winter can be counted as a car free
> zone.
>
> And maaayyyybeee the back access alleys could be
> counted since they're only used by garbage trucks,
> employees and tenants who want to park they're
> cars in their designated lots.
7 acres (28,000 mē), 4 streets
Old Town, commercial district, no traffic except for maintenance crews; area includes 60 apartments for the elderly
Feel free to amend the wikipedia page if thats incorrect.. i dont live there.
[en.wikipedia.org]
2010 ZCON in Nashville
middletennesseezclub.com - nissansportmag.com
Add to the Map of Ethanol Free Gas stations!
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old Town Fort Collins car free? HAHAHAHAHA!
>
>
> If you reeeaaaallly want to get anal about it, I
> guess that one block diagonal section that was
> converted into a pedestrian park with trees,
> benches, sculptures, a refreshment shop, a
> fountain with a performance stage, an ice skating
> rink in the winter can be counted as a car free
> zone.
>
> And maaayyyybeee the back access alleys could be
> counted since they're only used by garbage trucks,
> employees and tenants who want to park they're
> cars in their designated lots.
7 acres (28,000 mē), 4 streets
Old Town, commercial district, no traffic except for maintenance crews; area includes 60 apartments for the elderly
Feel free to amend the wikipedia page if thats incorrect.. i dont live there.
[en.wikipedia.org]
2010 ZCON in Nashville
middletennesseezclub.com - nissansportmag.com
Add to the Map of Ethanol Free Gas stations!
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: DaveBonds
Date: June 28, 2009 07:58PM
Well, my brother lives a few blocks outside of Old Town Ft.Collins and I can tell you that it's a single stretch of road, between car driven roads, that reaches about four blocks in span.
And that 7 acres includes building square footage.
It's about as car free as the 16th street mall, if they didn't have a mall bus running it's stretch, or the mile long path at the indoor Mills mall off of Colfax.
Ft. Collins, Boulder and Denver do have quite a bit of bicycle traffic, though. Scooters in fair weather too.
The truth is, a lot of the cities around the world wouldn't survive the winter without some form of climate controlled transportation. Some cities in Canada move completely underground in harsh weather!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2009:06:28:20:01:05.
And that 7 acres includes building square footage.
It's about as car free as the 16th street mall, if they didn't have a mall bus running it's stretch, or the mile long path at the indoor Mills mall off of Colfax.
Ft. Collins, Boulder and Denver do have quite a bit of bicycle traffic, though. Scooters in fair weather too.
The truth is, a lot of the cities around the world wouldn't survive the winter without some form of climate controlled transportation. Some cities in Canada move completely underground in harsh weather!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit was 2009:06:28:20:01:05.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: boZton
Date: June 28, 2009 09:03PM
well, then I guess Downtown Crossing in Boston (Filene's & the old Jordan Marsh) qualifies as a no driving zone. Two or three blocks of Washington St., a block off it at Summer St., and a block in the opposite direction, which is the total of Winter St. up to Tremont.
Oddly, Massachusetts has more woodlands now than we did a hundred years ago. With far fewer working farms in the area, fewer of the fields have needed to remain "cleared" and trees have taken them back. even the fields that have become the locations for new homes usually have trees planted on the property where there were none.
This Vauban place sounds nice. As long as I could CHOOSE to give up vehicles and live there, rather than have it forced on me. It would be nice to know the wife could take a walk to the boulangerie without the possibility of getting hit by a car.
Oddly, Massachusetts has more woodlands now than we did a hundred years ago. With far fewer working farms in the area, fewer of the fields have needed to remain "cleared" and trees have taken them back. even the fields that have become the locations for new homes usually have trees planted on the property where there were none.
This Vauban place sounds nice. As long as I could CHOOSE to give up vehicles and live there, rather than have it forced on me. It would be nice to know the wife could take a walk to the boulangerie without the possibility of getting hit by a car.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: erzelda
Date: June 29, 2009 12:33AM
Nothing wrong with having choices -
the problem is that some folks are not given choices and other folks don't care because they think they know better how the rest of us should live.
The other problem is that the choices forced on the people are not forced on other intities that are the bigger problem - big industires, bloated and inefficient go'mints and businesses.
It's one thing for us (people) to have to bite the bullet (while the bullets are being taken away) - but it's another to be told what you can do when the ones telling can ignore the edict.
the problem is that some folks are not given choices and other folks don't care because they think they know better how the rest of us should live.
The other problem is that the choices forced on the people are not forced on other intities that are the bigger problem - big industires, bloated and inefficient go'mints and businesses.
It's one thing for us (people) to have to bite the bullet (while the bullets are being taken away) - but it's another to be told what you can do when the ones telling can ignore the edict.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Route66
Date: June 29, 2009 09:20AM
Like everything else, this harmless concept will get ugly if the GUBment every gets too heavily involved.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Arubabill
Date: June 29, 2009 08:46PM
Zazupilot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> List of car free zones in the United States:
>
> Bald Head Island, NC
> Monhegan Island, ME
> Mackinac Island, MI
> Russell Island, MI
> Tangier Island, VA
> Arcosanti, AZ
> Catalina Island, CA
> Branson Landing district, Brason, MO
> Fire Island, NY
> Roosevelt Island, NY
> Daufuskie Island, SC
> Venice Canals, Venice, CA ???????
> Old Town Fort Collins, CO
> San Antonio River Walk, San Antonio, TX
I hope no one is driving on the water-filled canals in Venice .
-------------------------------------------------------
> List of car free zones in the United States:
>
> Bald Head Island, NC
> Monhegan Island, ME
> Mackinac Island, MI
> Russell Island, MI
> Tangier Island, VA
> Arcosanti, AZ
> Catalina Island, CA
> Branson Landing district, Brason, MO
> Fire Island, NY
> Roosevelt Island, NY
> Daufuskie Island, SC
> Venice Canals, Venice, CA ???????
> Old Town Fort Collins, CO
> San Antonio River Walk, San Antonio, TX
I hope no one is driving on the water-filled canals in Venice .
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: escangelion
Date: June 30, 2009 12:09AM
Quote:DaveBonds
Well, my brother lives a few blocks outside of Old Town Ft.Collins and I can tell you that it's a single stretch of road, between car driven roads, that reaches about four blocks in span.
That's the stretch of N. College Ave. It sounds like the description in the Wiki entry is only the small portion of Old Town that includes N. College Ave, East Mountain Ave, Walnut St, and Trimble Ct which is the pedestrian park.
Google Maps
Street view is awesome... And a bit disconcerting.
Quiz time:
How many establishments in that area of Old Town alone can you buy alcohol?
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Route66
Date: June 30, 2009 10:32AM
Dykes?
Ya but Tony.....
Posted by: Zluster
Date: July 01, 2009 08:04AM
....to my recollection Steve Martin did not drive to the end of his driveway to get the paper, he rolled his car down the street meet his neighbor. Heck he didn't even start it up, he used his foot to move it.
Also, Old Town in fort collins is a very small car free zone, your talking about a couple of blocks of pedestrian mall.
Pearl St in boulder is a much bigger car free zone.
Also, Old Town in fort collins is a very small car free zone, your talking about a couple of blocks of pedestrian mall.
Pearl St in boulder is a much bigger car free zone.
Re: Hell on Earth.....Auto-ban: German town goes car-free
Posted by: Zluster
Date: July 01, 2009 08:13AM
Escangelion, I would love to tell you how many places you can buy alcohol, but Frankly I haven't managed to drink myself to all of them yet.
Does New Belgium count as part of old town? After all you can stumble from New Belgium to old town in just a few minutes.
Or if you bike about 60 secs, but you might get a BUI.
Does New Belgium count as part of old town? After all you can stumble from New Belgium to old town in just a few minutes.
Or if you bike about 60 secs, but you might get a BUI.
watch it again...
Posted by: Tony D
Date: July 01, 2009 10:42AM
Drives down the driveway to get the paper, and back up...in his morning robe!
"What day is it today? First day of spring? GET THE GUN! GET THE GUN FROM THE GLOVEBOX!!! QUICK! QUICK!"
It was amusing at first, after living in SoCal it became hilarious!
People here simply want feel good answers. Don't confuse them with FACTS, Dammit!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
You simply can't call someone a F**ktard here, no matter how truthful it is.
Stupidity is contagious, and looks like it's pandemic here...
"What day is it today? First day of spring? GET THE GUN! GET THE GUN FROM THE GLOVEBOX!!! QUICK! QUICK!"
It was amusing at first, after living in SoCal it became hilarious!
People here simply want feel good answers. Don't confuse them with FACTS, Dammit!
Tony D: "Knowledgeable but Caustic"... rationull
You simply can't call someone a F**ktard here, no matter how truthful it is.
Stupidity is contagious, and looks like it's pandemic here...
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