The Big Three / Automotive industry crisis thread
GM says it "disappointed" and "betrayed" consumers
Who in the hell EVER came up with this advertising shite ought to be FIRED!! If anyone needs to apologize for crappy products its VW and Chrysler!!
GM says it "disappointed" and "betrayed" consumers
Mon Dec 8, 2008 8:40am EST
(Reuters) - General Motors Corp on Monday unveiled an unusually frank advertisement acknowledging it had "disappointed" and sometimes even "betrayed" American consumers as it lobbies to clinch the federal aid it needs to stay afloat into next month.
The print advertisement marked a sharp break from GM's public stance of just several weeks ago when it sought to justify its bid for a U.S. government on the grounds that the credit crisis had undermined its business in ways executives could never have foreseen.
It also came as Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, who has led the automaker since 2000, faces new pressure to step aside as GM seeks up to $18 billion in federal funding.
"While we're still the U.S. sales leader, we acknowledge we have disappointed you," the ad said. "At times we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry standards and our designs became lackluster."
The unsigned open letter, entitled "GM's Commitment to the American People" ran in the trade journal Automotive News, which is widely read by industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders.
In the ad, GM admits to other strategic missteps analysts and critics have said hastened its recent decline.
"We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where we lost adequate focus on the core U.S. market," the ad said. "We also biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs."
But GM also says in the ad that it was hit by forces beyond its control as it tried to complete a restructuring earlier this year.
"Despite moving quickly to reduce our planned spending by over $20 billion, GM finds itself precariously and frighteningly close to running out of cash," the ad says.
A failure of GM would deepen the current recession and put "millions of job at risk," according to the ad, which also highlights the automaker's pledged restructuring and intention to begin repaying taxpayers in 2011.
GM spokesman Greg Martin said the ad was an attempt by the automaker to present "a pledge directly to the public."
"We believe we need to deliver this commitment unfiltered since quite a bit of media commentary has not kept pace with our actual progress to transform the company," Martin said.
Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd, a Democrat from Connecticut who is central to the effort to craft an auto bailout bill, on Sunday said GM should replace Wagoner.
GM says Wagoner has the support of the company's board.
(Reporting by Kevin Krolicki, editing by Dave Zimmerman)
I have a 1992 GMC Sierra with a 4.3 liter V6 that I have personally put on over 307,000 miles. The only work I have had done to this truck has been things that you would expect to wear out over time; i.e. alternaters, brakes, fuel pump, AC work, clutch, etc. I have never overhauled the engine. Actually, the valve covers have never been off the engine. Only uses 1 quart of oil about every 5000 miles. Never left me stranded. Not pretty anymore, but still a hell of a truck.
GM has not "betrayed" or "disappointed" me with the quality of this vehicle.
I wonder how many lawyers could seize upon this inane statement and successfully SUE GM in a class action lawsuit for those that had recurrent problems with their GM vehicles??
Agreed RickyBooby, I have 2 Pontiac Grand Prixs and they have around 130,000 miles on them and have been better than any import I have ever owned.
Those few cars mentioned do not represent the majority of GM's products. Your sample size is way too small to make a generalization about their cars. My family had a Chevy Lumina and it was a piece of garbage, overheating on every chance it had. All our other cars have been imports and have been great cars, with a Volvo reaching over 240k miles, and a Toyota Previa that is still used every day with over 200k. So there...
compare a 2004 Malibu to 2004 Camry and you will begin to see the problem.
Hey Leon I work for a VW Volvo Porsche dealership and let me tell you that we have no lack of broken down cars for major issues like engines and trannies on a daily basis.
hey piper the 04 Malibu was hideous. Compare an 08 Malibu to an 08 Camry and the Malibu wins hands down.
I had a 91 s10 4wd blazer that was the biggest piece of sh#t on the road. The motor crapped out at 98,000 and had to be completly rebuilt . One day the glove box door fell on the floor (plastic hinges broke) , the door handles broke, the electric windows quit, the digital dash had to be fixed at 50,000.The ac compressor had to be replaced at 60,000,The paint flaked off in sheets,THe drivers seat mounting bracket broke, the seat belt retractors quit working,the passenger front door and the drivers side rear door hinges broke, the radio died , the rear hatch leaked everytime it rained. I bought this vehicle when it was 1 year old from a 70 year old man. It had 8,000 miles on it when I bought it. My wife drove it to work at a bank and to the daycare and grocery store. It never was off road or even saw a dirt road. There was no explination for this blazer to fall apart like it did other than it was a piece of crap.I practically had to give it away when i bought my next vehicle. Gm should still be apoligizing for this rape of my wallet.That also was the last gm product I purchased.
True, the sample size is a bit small to generally speak of the overall quality of GM products. I was only speaking of my experiance with my truck.
On the other hand, my 80 year old mother has a 94 Honda Accord with maybe 65,000 miles on it and that thing is always having one problem or another. My car pool buddy has a 98 Honda Accord that just had the tranny give out on it with no warning. His wife's 08 Honda minivan just had the power steering pump purge fluid onto his driveway just last week. I know another co-worker with a late 90's Honda Accord that the tranny completely gave out on it recently.
Are these isolated problems or indicative of issues with Honda as a whole. I think a lot of GM's bad rap is left overs from the junk they were slapping together in the late 70's early to mid 80's.
GM= hecho en Mexico.
We have had a total of 5 Hondas, 4 of them Accords that were and are very reliable. Our '87 Accord succumbed to rust as it was a Massachusetts car, our '98 was totaled in an accident. Currently I drive an '01 coupe, my dad has an '03 CRV, and my mother drives an '07 Accord. Never had big problems with any of them. My Accord is as reliable as anything, and I've gotten 38mpg on highway trips before. Plus the Vtec engine is great, and the interior and exterior are pleasing to the eyes and hands. Can't say that about any comparable GM, or American vehicle for that matter.
The issued statement is a psychology ploy to win favor for their gov't funding request. The ad people wrote this and they deal in mind games all the time. It's advertising at its subtlest and has no other meaning.
Same as tactics that insulate the managers from the real world, like "we have come to a settlement on this case but admit no wrong doing". Sleep well, GM.
Had several GM progucts, all garbage compared to Japanese. I keep my Chevy truck around, well, because it's a truck,only drive it once a week to keep it running. I have replaced many,many parts on it. My Japanese vehicles, oil changes and gas.
Never will I buy another GM product!
norm(The 12 sec Dual SU Dude) Wrote:
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> hey piper the 04 Malibu was hideous. Compare an 08
> Malibu to an 08 Camry and the Malibu wins hands
> down.
And that makes up for the way GM has treated all those '04 Malibu owners that bought those cars in good faith and were used?
Sorry, I bought one Chevy car,(a Malibu), had the typical quality, or lack thereof, problems and will never be fooled again.
Placing an apology in a trade publication allows them at a later date under testimony to say that the comments were for the trade, not the public, no matter what a talking head may regurgitate to the media. Mis-spoken not mis-written.
My black 1994 chevy full size blazer silverado has 210, 000 miles on it. I only bought it a year and a half ago (i put tons of miles on cars). Seems to run OK but I have no idea what was done for upkeep all along as I have no records. So far, I have put shocks in it and a new muffler. 4X4 works, all power options work, motor is strong, heater heats well. Only NOW do I have to replace a rotted brake line and do a tune up. no issues with timing...
For ZXTOY,the guy complaining about the chevy truck digi dash going out at 50k miles: I checked the records of service for my 1986 300zx and found that the digi dash had to get the infamous service to it only three years after the owner took purchase of the car! There were also hums and whines from the diff and the wheel bearings THROUGHOUT THE LIFE of the car!HMM, and an injector "recall" or voluntary campaign,ok. Replaced timing belt in 1991, 1995, 2008 (that's the FOURTH timing belt in the vehicle including the original), not to mention these cars have constant issues in general with electrical component corrision.
I am by no means defending GM, but I had about 3 Camaros, a Baretta GT, An old malibu, a pontiac Grand Prix. The Camaros and Malibu were already very old when i got them. nuff said. But the Baretta GT and Grand Prix 3.1 liter transverse mounted multiport fuel injected engine of the 90's was a super engine. The only problems I ever had with those two cars were due to my own lack of maintenence and foresight. THE THING IS, GM IS HIT OR MISS. IMPORTS ARE FAR MORE HIT THAN MISS.
That being said, when I first plunked my ass into a then-10 year old Hnda Civic CRX, I was very happy with the car and have continued buying Hondas. The GM cars, even though the quality has been improving by leaps and bounds, the FINISH work leads people to think they are cheap. The dash and interior components of a Honda or Nissan LOOK and FEEL superior to the GM crapplastic.
I could go on about how GM does not put airbags in cars at all in S. America unless they are special ordered. That bugs me a lot. Sure, they are following the laws there, and the airbags are not mandated there, but I guess lives of S. American customers are not as important as the N. American counterparts. I know first hand the damage that they stand by and watch going on down there. With substandard roads and virtually no police enforcement of the roadways, that is a place where the bags are needed. Instead of being responsible, they just let the carnage continue. Honda finally is entering the S. American market. just watch in instant replay as the US 80's and 90's happens all over again in S. America and Honda/ Toyota take over there too.
END MONOLOG/ RANT
RickyBobby Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> True, the sample size is a bit small to generally
> speak of the overall quality of GM products. I
> was only speaking of my experiance with my truck.
>
> On the other hand, my 80 year old mother has a 94
> Honda Accord with maybe 65,000 miles on it and
> that thing is always having one problem or
> another. My car pool buddy has a 98 Honda Accord
> that just had the tranny give out on it with no
> warning. His wife's 08 Honda minivan just had the
> power steering pump purge fluid onto his driveway
> just last week. I know another co-worker with a
> late 90's Honda Accord that the tranny completely
> gave out on it recently.
> Are these isolated problems or indicative of
> issues with Honda as a whole. I think a lot of
> GM's bad rap is left overs from the junk they were
> slapping together in the late 70's early to mid
> 80's.
The bottom line:
What cars have the highest rating on reliability from testing sources like Consumer Reports.
They have larger populations to draw from on model reliability than any personal testimonials no matter how appealing/revolting.
But, as the old addage goes;
Fool me once shame on you.
Fool me twice shame on me.
GM (You can probably insert Ford and Chrysler here too the way things are going) may now build the greatest cars ever produced, but if they learned their lessons too late, Shame On Them!
These are folks that make their living from what?
MARKETING.
And they are clueless to how they are portrayed or better yet are so arrogant as to discount the impression they make on others outside of their special world?
That's messed up.
I believe the previous poster who said it's just an "advertising mind game."
Funny thing is,
after the begging of government cheese, and a few years down the road, these Executives will jump ship/company with their ridiculous compensation package. Not their problem anymore.
Support America ---->buy a Toyota Camry, Tundra, Honda Accord...
Support Mexico/Canada ---->buy GM/Ford
Q: What did Cerberus pay to Daimler for Chrysler?
A: 7 Billion Dollars.
Q: What does Chrysler want in the way of a "loan"? (Just till March)
A: 7 Billion Dollars.
Cerberus: A multi-headed dog that guards the gates of Hell.
Well, here goes:
Mother's car - needs new brakes every 20k miles, olds did not put big enough breaks on the vans
Wife's car - has a blown head gasket, and a class problem on the buick trans, so it shifts like someone rear ends you. Kinda annoying on a auto sports car, totally a PITA in a Buick Century.
Inlaw's car, rendezvous, not too bad so far, only one harness plug and a class problem on the wheel bearings.
First car, 125k miles, Plymouth sun dance, spun a crank bearing.
Granted, my Celica needed a new trans after 260k miles, esp considering I was new to manuals, first sporty car, and I got it and drive it for 2 years without any oil in the trans.
And only my 300zx has had any other sort of issue, clutch, MC, and front rotors, all in 2 years. 240z, 280z, both great.
keyser soze Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe the previous poster who said it's just
> an "advertising mind game."
>
> Funny thing is,
>
> after the begging of government cheese, and a few
> years down the road, these Executives will jump
> ship/company with their ridiculous compensation
> package. Not their problem anymore.
>
>
>
> Support America ---->buy a Toyota Camry, Tundra,
> Honda Accord...
>
> Support Mexico/Canada ---->buy GM/Ford
Toyota's Woodstock plant opens, RAV4 now Canadian made.
It's Toyota's first new Canadian plant investment in nearly 20 years. The automaker's new Woodstock plant, located in Woodstock Ontario, officially opened Thursday, December 4th. The plant will produce, among other models, the new Toyota Rav4. The updated bestseller was introduced earlier this year with several engine and styling upgrades, as well as reduced fuel consumption and increased safety.
2009 Toyota RAV4
"On behalf of our network of more than 230 Toyota Dealers across the country, we are pleased that the RAV4 vehicles sold in Canada will be made in Canada," said Mr. Yoichi Tomihara, President and CEO of Toyota Canada Inc. "At Toyota, we are committed to building our most popular models in the markets where they're sold focusing on quality and safety. With the official grand opening in Woodstock, Toyota now builds four models in Canada, which together represent almost 50 per cent of our total sales in this country."
The car-based RAV4 SUV was first introduced in 1996, and it's been a hit ever since- selling over 1,600 units this November alone. The popular model joins the current lineup of "Made in Canada" Toyotas, including the Corolla, Matrix and RX350 from Lexus.
BTW non union plant.
I challenge _ANY_ foriegn pickup truck to bring home the load of wood I got tonight in my 94 F-250 Ford 4x4 (loaded to the point of falling out), and pulling a 16'x7' utility trailer loaded similarly.
You all seem to have big problems with the good reliable vehicles that my wife and I have for daily drivers......a 99 Chrysler Town/Country minivan, and a 97 VW Cabrio. We haven't had any problems with any of our vehicles in fact, it was always the Datsun Zs that were leaving my stranded.
I am of the opinion that G.M. and the other american car companies did not care and still do not care about the quality and warrenty of the vehicles they produced. Now they will say anything to get help but they didn't care before. Sweeeet. Pucker up Fellas. lol
I will be using imports loosely but they are made in the U.S.
If they did they would have matched the powertrain warrenty with the import vehicles they were supposed to be in competition with. They were not in competition with the imports they have been trying to catch up. It wasn't until a few years ago that Chrysler did the 100,000 mile warrenty. How do they expect to have a loyal following and or rebuild one, if they don't match the imports warrenty. Come on now, 3 years 36,000 mile powertrain warrenties don't work. Imports: 5 years 60,000 miles. Hyndai 10 years, 100,000 miles.
Hyndai, The crappy car producing company of the late 80's has totally transformed itself with that warrenty. The Big 3 could honestly start with that.
They also did not care about customer satisfaction until a few years ago also. Mainly dealing with Surveys:
Import car companies have been mailing surveys to customers who bring there cars in to an import dealership, for whatever reason. Now this applies mostly to cars under warrenty but they also send them out to customers out of warrenty. They have been doing this for more than 10 years. Why? they want to know how there customers are being treated. What they need to change and what dealership Franchise will be pulled if they don't correct there customer satisfaction scores. How was the visit?. How were you treated, Was the car fixed right the first time, How was the waiting area, Was the car clean when it was returned to you, were you called and were the repairs explained to you fully before the work was performed, and so on.
I have been an automechanic for 23 years, Loved cars in general before I could walk. Worked on Domestics,Imports and Exotics, currently am a Nissan Tech. I know techs who work for Ford and Chrysler dealerships, so I hear the stories on a regular basis. I love 50'to 70's American Muscle cars. When asked what cars I would recommend to family and friends buy. Imports hands down.
Now I know the job loss of The Big 3 possibly going under would send this country into a deeper recession. Probably taking 5 years to climb out of, but they had better step up there game. Especially to get customer loyalty and satisfaction back. Do I think they can do it, yes. Chrysler did it in the 80's so it can be done.
Read it for yourself and decide:
GM'S COMMITMENT TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
We deeply appreciate the Congress considering General Motors' request to borrow up to $18 billion from the United States. We want to be sure the American people know why we need it, what we'll do with it and how it will make GM viable for the long term.
For a century, we have been serving your personal mobility needs, providing American jobs and serving local communities. We have been the U.S. sales leader for 76 consecutive years. Of the 250 million cars and trucks on U.S. roads today, more than 66 million are GM brands - nearly 44 million more than Toyota brands. Our goal is to continue to fulfill your aspirations and exceed your expectations.
While we're still the U.S. sales leader, we acknowledge we have disappointed you. At times we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry standards and our designs become lackluster. We have proliferated our brands and dealer network to the point where we lost adequate focus on our core U.S. market. We also biased our product mix toward pick-up trucks and SUVs. And, we made commitments to compensation plans that have proven to be unsustainable in today's globally competitive industry. We have paid dearly for these decisions, learned from them and are working hard to correct them by restructuring our U.S. business to be viable for the long term.
Today, we have substantially overcome our quality gap; our newest designs like the Chevrolet Malibu and Cadillac CTS are widely heralded for their appeal; our new products are nearly all cars and "crossovers" rather than pick-ups and SUVs; our factories have greatly improved productivity and our labor agreements are much more competitive. We are also driven to lead in fuel economy, with more hybrid models for sale and biofuel-capable vehicles on the road than any other manufacturer, and determined to reinvent the automobile with products like the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric vehicle and breakthrough technology like hydrogen fuel cells.
Until recent events, we felt the actions we'd been taking positioned us for a bright future. Just a year ago, after we reached transformational agreements with our unions, industry analysts were forecasting a positive GM turnaround. We had adequate cash on hand to continue our restructuring even under relatively conservative industry sales volume assumptions. Unfortunately, along with all Americans, we were hit by a "perfect storm." Over the past year we have all faced volatile energy prices, the collapse of the U.S. housing market, failing financial institutions, a stock market crash and the complete freezing of credit. We are in the midst of the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Just like you, we have been severely impacted by events outside our control. U.S. auto industry sales have fallen to their lowest per capita rate in half a century. Despite moving quickly to reduce our planned spending by over $20 billion, GM finds itself precariously and frighteningly close to running out of cash.
This is why we need to borrow money from U.S. taxpayers. If we run out of cash, we will be unable to pay our bills, sustain our operations and invest in advanced technology. A collapse of GM and the domestic auto industry will accelerate the downward spiral of an already anemic U.S. economy. This will be devastating to all Americans, not just GM stakeholders, because it would put millions of jobs at risk and deepen our recession. By lending GM money, you will provide us with a financial bridge until the U.S. economy and auto sales return to modestly healthy levels. This will allow us to keep operating and complete our restructuring.
We submitted a plan to Congress Dec. 2, 2008, detailing our commitments to ensure our viability, strengthen our competitiveness, and deliver energy-efficient products.
Specifically, we are committed to:
- produce automobiles you want to buy and are excited to own
- lead the reinvention of the automobile based on promising new technology
- focus on our core brands to consistently deliver on their promises
- streamline our dealer network to ensure the best sales and service
- ensure sacrifices are shared by all GM stakeholders
- meet appropriate standards for executive pay and corporate governance
- work with our unions to quickly realize competitive wages and benefits
- reduce U.S. dependence on imported oil - protect our environment
- pay you back the entire loan with appropriate oversight and returns
These actions, combined with a modest rebound of the U.S. economy, should allow us to begin repaying you in 2011.
In summary, our plan is designed to provide a secure return on your investment in GM's future. We accept the conditions of your loan, the commitments of our plan, and the results needed to transform our business for long-term success. We will contribute to strengthening U.S. energy and environmental security. We will contribute to America's technical and manufacturing know-how and create high quality jobs for the "new economy." And, we will continue to deliver personal mobility freedom to Americans using the most advanced transportation solutions. We are proud of our century of contribution to U.S. prosperity and look forward to making an equally meaningful contribution during our next 100 years.
Link: http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2008/12/08/289206.html
Screw GM. Bought a 1976 K5 Blazer. 350 4 bolt main, 350TH tranny, NP 203 10 bolt front axle, 12 bolt rear. Tranny died on me.
1980 CustomDeluxe 4x4. 454, 400TH, NP205 10 bolt front 12 bolt rear
Last one I bought was a 1987 K5 Blazer, 305HO, 700R4, NP 208, 10 bolt front and rears. Tranny died on me. Then the NP 208 transfer case. Then the electronics, Then the engine. THEN, the rear axle. Truck was absolute junk compared to the older models.
Have a buddy that owns a stereo shop. They laugh when someone brings a Vette in. The UAW people cram trash and garbage under the dashes of Vettes just for laughs. The stereo people are the ones that get the trash out of Vettes. My heart bleeds when I hear of the little UAW workers who are worried about buying Christmas presents for their kids. awwww.
"At times we violated your trust by letting our quality fall below industry standards and our designs became lackluster."
The statement of the past 100 years.
Honda Accords were KNOWN for having auto tranny failures in the late 90's especially on the 4cylinder trannies. My buddy had to have THREE auto trannies put in his 1998 Honda Accord. Only ONE was covered under warranty.
He now drives a ....drumroll please....Hyundai Sonata did I mention he also SOLD Hondas for 20 years????
The big American car makers operate on "planned obsolesence" ti get the buyer to trade in every four years.
Vehicles were designed to need to be traded sooner, and they were designed to be mass produced a s cheaply as possible and made more complicated to have to be repaired by "authorized dealers".
Unions didn't help either.
You reap what you sow.
erzelda Wrote:
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> You reap what you sow.
Thump that bible for those in the back of the congregation! ;)
The 90s GM cars were the absolute worst. You couldnt build a crappier car by accident. Drive down the road and the paint would literally peel off.
And someone will say, "Well thats true, but now the cars are better quality..."
And I will have to say that the Mexicans can build a better quality car than the UAW! Astonishing! The Heartbeat of America is now El Corazon de Mexico!
While some or even much of GM's letter might be true, I see it more like a POW's forced confession. The only way for the big three to survive is to bow down and agree with whatever the government wants them to do. If that means "confessing their sins" in a public forum, then that's what they will do.
Yes, GM is in grave danger, but take a look around the world right now. Toyota, Nissan, and Honda are cutting way back, Honda is dropping their F1 program, the Chinese car companies are in trouble, and all the European auto companies are receiving government help as well. The way we (all people) do business must change. We became overextended to the point of collapse when things began to go south. This isn't GM's fault, it's the mentality of people today. Once everyone takes their lumps and things settle down, the economies of the world can start over. Things will be done differently and credit will be harder to come by, but people will adapt and things will improve. If GM weathers the storm, they might once again make lots of profit. Only time will tell.
The unsigned open letter, entitled "GM's Commitment to the American People" ran in the trade journal Automotive News, which is widely read by industry executives, lobbyists and other insiders...
GM spokesman Greg Martin said the ad was an attempt by the automaker to present "a pledge directly to the public."
Even though this letter ism purported to be a "pledge directly to the public", they published it in an automotive insider trade magazine. GM still doesn't get it: the automotive center in the US moved away from Detroit at least 10 years ago. The "public" doesn't read Automotive News! Geez, get a clue!
----- John Coffey
BetaMotorsports, LLC
http://www.betamotorsports.com