So turns out no one in MD can turn a drill/slot rotor.
Remember this pic from last week.
Anyway, not a single brake shop around me will turn these. They tell me that the slots are a liability on their machines. Surely they cant be serious right?
One guy told me the rotor had been severly weakened because of the drilling. He Said and I quote "The rotor you have cant be turned cause the holes will cool it down to much during the machining process." I proceeded to laugh in his face and i will bad mouth that shop until the day i die.
So now i have to go to a machine shop to do it. He's only charging me $10 a pair. He told me not to worry if the holes cool it down to much while he's cutting em' he said he'd hold a torch to them to bring them up to "machining temperature".lol
So any of you run it to this problem? Probally not its a little something my friends call "Joe luck". Oh well, what can you do?
Really? Didn't know that.
carbed...maybe you should do some reasearch before you laugh at places that wont turn slotted and drilled rotors on a brake lathe!!!
they are NOT designed to handle rotors like that...if you knew how they worked, you wouldnt even have thought you could take it to a brake shop.
i cant tell you how many times kids with slotted rotors come in our place (MAIN auto) and ask if we can just "do it anyways"
i try to tell them its kinda sort like shoving a steel rod in a bicycle wheel thats going 50mph...it would rip the teeth right out of the lathe! and those teeth are expensive!
buuuttt...im sure a flywheel one could do it, they opereate completely differently....
I've done it, you can't set the machine for a "single pass" you have to do a few light passes to get the job done.
I was laughing at his crappy excuse. "Proper Machining temperatures" a simple no would of been fine by me I'm not that stupid. If you have to lie to someone like that then you probally shouldn't be operating a shop. This is the kinda of guy who probally sells little old ladies muffler bearings.
Most of my questions to these guys were "if you cant who can?".
I didn't laugh at all of them, just the one for some BS excuse. Every shop i went to was a referral from the previous one, who thought they could help me. Thats how i ended up at the machine shop. So I learned something today.
its not warped either, just glazed and not even that bad. i would think a single pass would do the trick.
This whole thing evolved from a annoying squeek. then to overheating(bad master)and now this.
I'll get it sooner or later.
how refreshing, another non-industry person is now an 'expert' and wants to badmouth the excuse he got for not turning his rotors.
Did you ever consider that once he saw your rotors he wanted NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM?
In many states you can't turn rotors, period---solely replacement parts only!
Talking with the Bro-in-Law this past week he was talking about how he doens't even take work on at his shop anny longer simply because of the liability. Someone buys parts from him, then complains because the gearset (for example) howls when it's in the differential. Liability: he sold the part, now he's liable for the consequences that 'it doesn't work'. What does he end up doing? Spending HIS money to take the rearend down to a competent shop, having it PROPERLY set up, and then brings it back to the shop who told him his parts were POS, and goes on a test drive to make sure the gearset is now 'quiet'---Mechanic Setup was wrong. But he can't charge the shop for the proper setup, he has to eat it under a warranty cost.
What do you think the operator saw with those POS lightweight rotors (which they are)? I can tell you EXACTLY what the guy was thinking: Overheated and warped rotors. Rotors that have gimmick slots and holes in them that make any kind of heat in the rotor magnified and exacerbate warpage,and by turning them THINNER will only FURTHER exacerbate the matter. Rotors in a system that is not working properly so chances are good that there will be a comeback under WARRANTY even though there was nothing in the WORLD he could have done to prevent it.
Your parts walk-in was a problem waiting to happen, and he simply did what most shops nowadays do: deny service because the headache won't be worth the effort.
You want someone to blame, blame the people who sue in small claims because their engine seized after a brake job. "He SHOULD HAVE CHECKED the oil when he was doing the brakes!"
Blame the people that sue in small claims because the brake pads warped the rotors....while the ride the brake as a two-footed driver.
Blame the people who sue in small claims for anything and everything THEY should have done, but didn't...but because you were the last guy with a shop to TOUCH the car, they can shift their liability to YOU!
Meritless or not, litigation causes shop owners to take time away from business and pay money for countless stupid and frivoulous claims simply just to stay in business. You may not see it because you aren't doing it every day...but liability and the people's talent for shifting blame is unfathomable. There comes a point where shop owners simply refuse to do anything but straight parts swaps with known OEM or AFtermarket parts because it opens them up to liability.
Then you get 'sepcialty shops' that will do the kind of stuff you want: resurfacing a consumable throwaway part to save a few bucks. Sure they will assume that liability, but since they usually have disclaimers (or are not in a generally accepted Automotive Business) they have somewhat of a shield. A machine shop simply does what it is told: Machine these discs to X thickness. They do it. That is what a machine shop does. Their liability ends there.
An automotive business, on the other hand, they know that 'minimum thickness' cast into the rotor will hang them on the hook if they cut below that point...and even if they don't they 'should know' the intended use of the part, and not do work that would endanger the public.
It's loose-loose. That is why you see people compartmentalizing the repair business: I do machine work ONLY. No, I don't know what it's for, no I don't know how it's installed. I just cut the metal. I do A/C work ONLY, no I don't know what that knocking is under the floorboard, No, I don't know how to fix it, I only deal with the HVAC system in the car, NOTHING ELSE.
if they are just glazed, use a die grinder and a scotch bright pad and a circular motion to knock the glaze down.
Mario
Guys Im not saying i know more than these guys who do this stuff all day. I just want them to be honest. All i said to these shops was if You cant do it then you cant do it thats fine, can you tell me who can? I dont need some bad excuse that is obviously not true.
Anyway, its the forth and i'm thirsty, gettin some booze and heading into to town.
Thanks for the info though guys much appreciated, happy Forth O' July, Booze it up boys and girls. I'll check in tomorrow.
tony said it just right. and you're upset that the shop owner didnt take the liability of recommending another shop to do it. cause if you ask "who then can do it?" and they say "joe" down the street then they took on a liability thru recommendation. and its not their job to find you a shop. the BS answers you got probably came from a shop owner with a sense of dry humor. in fact they are probably still laughing about the guy with the holy rotors.
i totally agree with tony on the issue of people filing frivilous lawsuits. too many people out there who can't walk thru life and take the hits while on their own two legs.
people need totake responsibilty for their own mistakes and or stupidity . and the judges and legal system need to punish the ones and their lawyers who sue for BS reasons.
Rotors that have gimmick slots and holes in them that make any kind of heat in the rotor magnified and exacerbate
Again I think Mr "D" hit it pretty good. That is so over kill it's not funny, But you laugh at a guy that tries to make an honest living. And turns you down on your crappy rotors.
I think your stuck buying new rotors unless you can get the glaze off by sanding. Haveing the rotors turned by a flywheel shop is probably only going to increase your problems. Machining the rotor on one side, then removing and setting back up to machine the other will end up taking the two sides out of parallel. They will act like their warped if this happens. Good luck either way.
good point 350TTZ...didnt think about that!!!
carbed...i agree with you though...i think its funny he said that...but like i said...i deal in the parts business...and 99% of companies we deal with wont turn rotors that are slotted or drilled....
now that i think about it...its always the kids with the hondas and corollas that want their rotors turned...ive NEVER seen a porche guy or heard of one with factory slots or drills want to turn one...
I run slotted rotors on my 280.When I do my brakes,I put them on my lathe and machine them.There is no problem turning these rotors.I use to run drilled rotors until I found cracks at the holes.they machine just like any other rotor.Hell,send them to me and I'll machine em for free.You pay for shipping both ways.Where are you.I've never heard that you could not machine a rotor,just replace.The only reasons you can't machine a rotor,they may be below min specs,have hot spots,cracked or just not enough left to machine.If you have 20 thousandths or less on rotors,replace them.
Autozone won't turn rotors anymore.... PepBoys and Checker are just about the only local "parts stores" that will still turn rotors.
Those rotors were cheaper than the part stores anyway. I dont have enough money to buy the good ones and i was in a bind, with my z being my daily driver and all. I know they are POS rotors but when your old rotors are shot and you only have $75 this is what i got.
Learned a little about brakes.
"The only reasons you can't machine a rotor,they may be below min specs,have hot spots,cracked or just not enough left to machine."
No, another reason is that state boards say that you can't! It is ILLEGAL in some states (usually the ones with state vehicle inspections) to do anything with rotors but replace them! New Jersey comes to mind---unless it's changed since then. Typically, it's back east that has these kind of invasive restrictions on vehicle maintenance.
Just as an aside, it's been stastically tracked, and the incidence of mechanical-failure caused accidents is NOT higher in states WITHOUT vehicle 'safety inspections'. Basically, the 'safety inspections' don't do anything for 'safety'....Imagine that! whooda thunkit, a Government Mandated Program that just fleeces people out of money...
its just another "tax" that they dont label a tax. in the business world it would be called misrepresentation!
Many new rotors are manufactured to minimum thicknesses, and REQUIRE replacement, as no turning is allowable.
Unlike the Z32 Group, though I was not applying modern technology to older vehicles, simply stating the facts of some state laws regarding turning rotors.
Due to weight considerations, and unsprung weight considerations, rotors are becoming thinner from the factory, with simple replacement being called out for in the service manuals. Perfectly "good" rotors can be condemned due to a deep enough single groove with as simple a phrasing as "any thicknesses when measured not conforming to these specifications, or any visible scoring of the rotor surface renders the rotor unservicable and requires replacement"
I have seen several manufactured vehicles with 'DO NOT RESURFACE' or 'DO NOT TURN' cast into the rotor. Usually on FWD vehicles for some reason...I don't know why. Maybe because it's an excuse to pull and repack the bearings when you replace a rotor---the logic being since the assembly is such a pain to get apart, rotor replacement is the only time it will get done, so they make it a requirement to change them frequently just to required maintenance gets performed on the bearings and drive axles.
I stand by what i said.I have never heard of any state whether or not they have safety inspections that says you will have to replace rotors and or drums when you do brake repair.That is BS.If you had to replace rotors and drums at every brake change,how long do you think brake shops would stay in business?That is why there is a min thickness or max diam stamped on just about every drum and rotor sold in the U.S.Yes,there are some rotors that are made close to min specs to begain with and,notice I said close to min specs,these rotor may or may not be machined when brakes are serviced.I don't know how long you have been doing brakes or if you run or work in a brake shop.I do and have been for close to 20 years.I'm not saying I'm a guru on brakes,I'm not,but I'm not a novice either.Just because some people do not want to machine a drilled or slotted rotor doesn't mean they can't be.Most Europian cars use a soft compound brake pad and rotor.The braking is excellant in these cars.The downside to this system is,you will go through pads and rotors quicker.Sometimes you can machine these rotors,sometimes you can not.My home state of North Carolina has safety inspections and as long as there is enough left on a rotor to machine and still be at or above min specs,it can be machined.If you can show me a state that says you can not machine a rotor even though there is enough left on the rotor to machine and still be at or above min specs,I will issue you an opology.Otherwise that statement is pure BS.
"If you can show me a state that says you can not machine a rotor even though there is enough left on the rotor to machine and still be at or above min specs,I will issue you an opology.Otherwise that statement is pure BS."
O.K., I said it ONCE, now for the mentally impaired:
NEW JERSEY
Just because industry standard says you can do something (which I never said wasn't correct) does NOT mean that state legislation can dictate something else whatsoever!
You know what, I was as indignant as you are now when I FIRST heard of this kind of B.S. Legislation as well...of course that was when I was 20 years old, over 20 years ago. I could not believe that a state law would prevent you from doing what EVERYBODY (or so I thought) else was doing.
Like they say: Just because you do it that way in your neck of the woods don't mean all woods is the same!
Well Tony,according to Rich Green of the New Jersey Dept of Consumer Affairs Automotive Divison,there is no such law on the books.I called him this morning,I can give you his number if you like.What he said was,they do not pull wheels and inspect brakes or mic drums or rotors when doing safety inspections and as long as rotors and drums are above min specs enough to machine,they CAN be machined.I still stand by what I said and I will issue you an apology if you can prove me wrong.Look,I'm not trying piss you or anyone else off,but I'm neither mentally impaired or ignorant.You have offered alot of advice to alot of people and I, and others really appreciate it.You have helped many.I do not konw as much about Z cars as you and some others,I don't offer any opinions on problems if I don't have knowledge or have had a like problem but,I do learn quickly.Now I would guess that brake shops in N.J. have an option as to whether or not they will machine rotors and drums.Personally,I think it's unprofessional for a brake shop to not machine rotors and drums when doing brake pad or shoe replacement but,if shops and customers want a pad slap,it is their shop and their customers rides,so be it.If you want Rich's number,let me know.
Note the dates of my comment as well.
I will inquire further as to the disposition and history or rotor resurfacing and recent legislation.
My e-mail is posted.
What do the dates of your post have to do with what you and I are talking about?You stated as Fact that N.J. state law said rotors and drums can never be machined.I will agree that state law,any state,says you cannot machine a rotor or drum if that rotor or drum is below min spec,beyond max diam or has any defects that,if machined will or could cause a brake failure.If it isn't state law,it should be.It is hard to believe that with your knowledge,you believe that a state,any state would say that rotors and drums can never be machined.It seems that I am not the one who is mentally impaired or indigant.It bothers me that when someone states something as fact,and that person gets called on it,instead of proving what they said,they resort to name calling.I refuse to be that way.Prove what you said,and I will issue you an apology.Anyway,as the great Rotney King once said,can't we all just get along with each other.Hey,maybe someday we can have a laugh over a beer or 14.
Please send it on so that I may make my further inquiries.
I don't understand your last post at all. I thought mine was pretty clear.
If you do e-mail it, please put something clear in the subject line, referencing ZC.C, or chances are it will be auto-deleted.
Gee Tony,what don't you understad?I think it was pretty clear.It took me less than 10 minutes to get an answer and I've never been to N.J.It seems that you just cannot get over the fact that you were wrong.Do your own leg work.This is my last post on this.For the last time,show me a state,any state that says a rotor or drum can never be machined when doing brake repair and I will issue you an apology.
YOU SAID:
"Well Tony,according to Rich Green of the New Jersey Dept of Consumer Affairs Automotive Divison,there is no such law on the books.I called him this morning,I can give you his number if you like."
I HAVE NOW REQUESTED THAT NUMBER THREE TIMES POLITELY AND YOU ARE REFUSING TO GIVE IT TO ME! HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN I BE? PLEASE FORWARD THE NUMBER AND I WILL, AS I HAVE STATED IN THE TWO PRIOR POSTS "INQUIRE FURTHER ON THE STATUS, HISTORY, AND CURRENT LEGISLATION."
YOU SAID: "I CAN GIVE YOU HIS NUMBER IF YOU LIKE"
I LIKE---is THAT what you needed to see? I WANT THE GUYS NUMBER, PLEASE DO WHAT YOU SAID YOU WOULD DO AND EITHER E-MAIL IT TO ME, OR POST IT HERE, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME!
Sheeze! WTF? Why all the attitude? W....T.....F?!?!?!?!?!?!!?
I don't know how you get that you've asked me three times,I see one time in your last post.But,you are right,I did say I would give you his number.609-633-9474.Happy trails.
Tony,what gives?You asked for the number,I gave,you haven't responded.Give up?Or just haven't a state yet that has this law?You whined about me not giving you the number,i gave,whats up?
Taking Three+ days to do it is a bit off the wall...
BUT NOW THAT I HAVE IT I WILL CALL.
BTW, I asked you to e-mail it to me since my e-mail is linked on this site, and was looking for it THERE, not coming to a post that is three weeks old looking for stuff that was stated it would be delivered to me. But that's a side point.
Odds are the machine shop is going to use a flywheel machine to "cut" your rotors.I wouldn't use my rotor machine(if i had one)on slotted/drilled rotors either.Too much opportunity for the slots or holes to rip the bit out of the chuck which would cause major damage to the machine.
Faster than a Motorola