RB25DET in my 88 Z31 56K warning
Whats up everyone, figured I would let everyone know what is goin on in my garage these days. I have a 88 black GLL digital dash N/A getting a heart transplant. I paid $375 for this car back in 2001, it is from Georgia. The donor car for the engine is a 1998 nissan skyline gts-t R33. My new heart has about 20k miles on it. I paid $2897.98 shipped to a business. I am starting this project very soon. I know some of you will say "why didnt you just go with a VG30DET? F that I want something not seen everyday. I know I will have the only one in Michigan. I will post tutorials and pics during the install. Hoping to have it done by the woodward dream cruise.
ah.. a rare mitsubishi z31. good luck with the swap.. its going to be very expensive for only 45 more hp over the Z31t motor. could have installed a 800$ IC kit and gotten the same result.
Thanks bdijanni, From what I am told the shifter will fit into the shifter hole no problem. It does sit back a little more than the stock position. The OEM shiftboot will work if I want to use it.
Right now I am trying to get a 200ZR front crossmember, engine mounts and trans mount. If i get those parts it will be a bolt in affair. I did find a 200ZR in the US however he wants to sell it as a whole for $3500, I dont need or want the whole car. Besides a 200ZR cannot be titled, driven or insured in the US. If i cannot find these parts, the mounts will have to be custom made.
I bought the engine from a japanese importer based out of Montreal. Thier company name is Sunrise Japanese. http://www.sunrisejapanese.com/ These guys are very heplful and a pleasure to deal with. They informed me about my shipping before the engine was even delayed. When crossing the Canadian/US border there is usually a few days, for large items like this, that it will sit. It took about a week to have shipped from the day of purchase. I have been asking them if they can get me a few parts from a 200ZR, they said that they are trying to find one in japan, that has been wrecked. I guess that 200ZR's are not very common anywhere.
Hey when you get a set of 17"s that bolt up for a 100 bucks with tires, its a deal. So you can get an VG30DET that revs to 9000rpm and produces a sandbagged 287 hp for $800 and has about 20k miles on it? that truly is amazing. Send me some links. What intercooler is it?
Nice Bro I hope you can get this done with out having to spend a shyt load!! Because that is a Phat engine I just love the way it looks--ALso I agree with RED about the vg30et But with this engine theres alot of stuff you can do to it!! Put a boost controler and sup up that turbo that came with the t2560 I think right? or some shyt like that?
RB doesn't rev to 9000 rpms.
and how do you know it only has 20k on it?
if you really want low mileage, import a JDM VG30ET.. you need it anyway, probably would have cost you 1/2 the price.
No idea what turbo it came with, I know it is only good up to 14 psi though. Damn ceramic impeller. I plan on using the AEM EMS standalone for my computer so a boost controller is not needed. Also the factory ECU does have a boost controller, it limits first gear to 7psi, second to 10 psi, third through fifth to 12 psi. The factory ecu is easily recalibrated in about 5 minutes.
its a T28.
Z bum, The imported that I dealt with showed me a video of when the car was running and a walkaround showing the ODO. Also in the paperwork he showed the same vehicle and numbers on the engine. I dont think he would risk his importers license to get an extra 100 bucks. Also how many skylines GTS-T's have you been in? Or hybrid Z's? I have been in one skyline. And I cant cound how many Hybrid Z's I have been in, but more than 20. The video of my engine shows a redline of 9000. You must have some type of knowledge to back up your talk? Not just other peoples here say?
Red what do I need a JDM VG30DET for? A big paperweight? I was just asking about your sources? I could use an intercooler for my conversion.
oh.. HKS makes a VG30ET bolt on kit. that wont work in this instance.
paperweight? you'de be surprised what you can do with that extra 500ccs. whatever, not my money. enjoy yourself
I dont understand why you would put an IC on a N/A?
Na Bro Hes saying if you had bought the vg30et and put the IC kit on it you would have more HP---Nothing to do with the NA
and a no nonsense bolt on, give it an ecu and and IC kit and you're set.
instead, you are searching for crossmembers, aftermarket FMUs, big monies for the same gain.
my roomate "Ken in AZ" had 450WHP on his stock NA block. the 30 is a stout motor.
Post Edited (Mar 25, 9:15am)
Thats what I thought however he did not say this.
I dont mean to jump down anyones throat, but please back your claims up.
I found a few sites that have a JDM VG30ET on them, ranging from 900 to 2000. Depending on mileage and what has been modified. Now with the 800 IC, new computer and harness 500, boost conroller 5-500, transmission 500, slave master and pedals 300, I am in the same ball park. 900+800+500+250+500+300=3250. That is with an unmodified engine. I may need to upgrade the injectors to get 300 horse to the wheels. I think injectors are pretty cheap though, from another car like an rx-7.
To get 300 horse out of the RB all I have to do is re-cal the pcm. I should already have 300 hp at the wheels with an aftermarket intercooler. I have a greddy.
I agree that the VG is a stout engine. However the RB is more stout. I have seen RB's put down 580 whp on stock internals. I could not use the engine in my car due to the lack of care it recieved before I purchased it. It is very tired and leaks from everywhere.
BTW i am not searching for an aftermarket FMU, I have found many of them. I can buy directly from greddy (e-manage) or from AEM (EMS). EMS offers online calibration teams and individuals that have proven numbers from thier calibrations. Just download and flash.
I may not need the crossmember. It may bolt in. I dont know yet, I figured I would try to find one just in case.
N/A's wiring harness' do not have a knock sensor built into them, so a turbo harness is needed.
you dont NEED the knock sensor. its helpful, but if it isnt present the ecu just ignores it. ask anyone on here or z31.com about ken's car.. im sure someone has the info on the z32 rear subframe swap or the engine build.. he helped pioneer the frontier plenum mod. he used the JWT 450 kit.
you have to remember, the VG30 in stock form isnt forged. you can throw in a z32 crank and rods and then get some forged pistons for relatively cheap. you can get a VG30 engine from a maxima or pathfinder for cheap at a junkyard.
Youre right the knock sensor is not needed however I prefer to use one.
I use a knock sensor to tune a vehicle to the max then retard the timing a few degrees, If I didnt use a knock sensor I would have gotten about 50 whp less. That was proven on a turbo miata. The miata without the knock sensor produced 218.7 whp. With the knock sensor it produced 264.3 whp. Now double the displacement youre looking at about 75 hp at least. I definately prefer the knock sesnor.
I am sure you are not familiar with dyno tuning otherwise you would have stated this.
I have tuned about 600 vehicles in the past two years. Most of them escape hybrids. No matter what the vehicle if you use the knock sensor as a guideline you will produce more hp.
Are you sure you're reading that right?
This says 8,000 rpms:
I'd also be interested in seeing the video:
az.zbum at gmail.com
It's a cool engine. Can't wait to actually see one completed. And if you actually do put up a webpage, kudos. You'd be the first.
Yes it does say 8,000 rpm. I dont know what to tell you, except I have seen it. I guess my engine is modified. By the looks of the engine if it is modified it is all internal. I do not have the e-mail of the walk-around anymore. I dont usually save emails more than a month. I will send a request for the video and forward it to you.
That's a good looking engine. Take those pieces and clean them very well and powdercoat what you can. Since the RB25 is a rare swap of sorts, you need to make your car a flagship for the conversion. Make it clean and take your time and make sure you pay attention to what you're doing, cuz 10,000 newbies are going to Email you asking every little detail about the swap :)
There has been one other person that had this swap done, that is confirmed to be done and running. His name is Dramier Role from texas. He had a shop named Augusta Customs do the swap for him. I am trying to get ahold of him for more information, however he is very busy with school.
I am going to tackle this swap myself. I am sure it will be a challenge.
Here is a link to Dramiers car pics.
what happens on a miata does not apply here.
the OE knock sensor is 1) inaccurate and 20 year old technology and 2) does not yield more HP as it is a sensor that is largely ignored.
you cannot make the association of doubling the displacement = double the HP. in that instance a 8.3l V10 viper engine would be producing 1200hp.
Sorry red I forgot you know everything.
Once again you show your ignorance about engine tuning. A knock sensor is vital to engine tuning if you want to run different grades of gasoline. It is also vital for tuning if you change the injectors. That is why most people have thier pcm's re-flashed.
Here in Mi there is 110 octane available at the pumps. If you want to tune for 110 vs. 91 you will need a knock sensor. In Mi we have a lot of choices for fuel 86,87,89,91,92,93,94 and 110(depending on the gas station). I think in Az there are only a few choices 86,87,89 and 91. I think the highest you can get is 106 if you are lucky. I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.
Who cares if a knock sensor is 20 year old technology. The internal combustion engine is over a century old technology in that. Who uses them anymore? Also I am sure most of the Z's on here still use a MAF? Why use it when you can use a MAP sensor.
You made the association of double the hp. I did not double the hp for a 3 liter, 50x2=100 not 75. I also did not double the displacement 1.6lx2=3.2l. Now I said that you could make about 75 hp less without the knock sensor with a 3.2l vs. with a knock sensor.
On the z31, all the OEM Detonation sensor does is pull a few degrees of timing when it senses some knocking. And suprisingly the ECU ignores the Detonation sensor when in boost...it's pretty much worthless...
"slave master and pedals 300"
"boost conroller 5-500"
WTf?^^
I think your thinking a bit expensive there. A new clutch master is like $30, and you could definetly get the brake and clutch pedals from someone parting their car out for ~$50 I'm sure.
Also $500 for a boost controller? I guess if you're looking for top of the line. But to get the performance, you're not going to need to spend that much.
$800 for an intercooler? Um...I don't think so. I think you can pretty much cut that cost in half if you're going to be making your own piping.
Good luck with the swap though...it looks nice and it's refreshing to have someone try something (relatively) original!!
I can thrash my friends 200ZR with an RB20DET with some big ass R33 turbo, in my pretty much bone stock VG30ET. It's ok for something different but the VG is better imho :)
I have gotten a a few quotes for the peday assy. all of which are 90 including shipping. But I will also need the line from the master to the slave, the slave and the master. That is if I were to go the VG route. As I am not doing. I already have the parts needed for my RB trans.
OK so the ecu ignores the knock sensor during boost. But in tuning you can pull more hp out of the engine with it rather than without it. That is my main reason for saying I needed it.
On the boost sensor aspect, anyone can spend 5 to 500, that is why I went with the median number. However I do not need a boost controller as one is built into my PCM. Another reason as to why no VG.
I was using Red's quote of 800 not mine. I already have mine its a greddy from a s13. It cost me 300 used.
Thanks,
I am sure it will be a lot of work and headaches.
85zx where are you located at? Just wondering if there are any legal 200ZR's in the US?
I have heard that the 200ZR's and 300ZR's are sloths, but never been in either.
So what would be a better engine to put into the 85-89 300zx? Vg30det or rb25? Let me know and send me some link to where i can buy this type of engine. Thanks.
That Fuckers bad man I love it!! Good idea I wanted to do the same thing some of them come with Dett's I was thinking about doing that! Hey did you find out what its going to take to get the shifter to fit and the motor mounts and tranny mounts?--Also the cross members and things like that I think you have to fab all that stuff to get it to fit?? Correct me if Im wrong.
Where did you find that engine with only 20k on it???
88 z31 N/A, Red/white Int. Poly Bushing Kit, z32TT wheels, Centerforce Dual friction clutch, Tockico suspension kit, Borla exhaust system, Zparts.com diff mount... Turbo swap soon to come!!
99 Infiniti q45t (fy33) My second love.