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Old 11-09-2006, 04:04 PM   #31 (permalink)
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It's a silly question to even consider wheel rotation at all for an aircraft as some limiting factor. As silly as that movie "Pearl Harbor" where the CGI planes would screach their tires as they begin a takeoff run Now that was just too **** funny!
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:05 PM   #32 (permalink)
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bubble, the distance to take off would be the same.

The aircraft would take off EXACTLY like it would without the conveyor. The conveyor has no affect on the aircraft beyond the minimal drag from the wheel bearings. This drag is most likely too small to make the signifigant digits anyway.

Hybrid: That is just being pedantic for the cause of not admitting defeat.

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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"Hybrid: That is just being pedantic for the cause of not admitting defeat."

Pedantic ?
We had the same conclusion.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
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For those of you who doubt a plane can take off with 0 ground speed.

http://plawner.org/video/zagi_and_mi...ope_flight.wmv

No engines, no propulsion, just wind in your face standing on a hill.

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:19 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
It's a silly question to even consider wheel rotation at all for an aircraft as some limiting factor. As silly as that movie "Pearl Harbor" where the CGI planes would screach their tires as they begin a takeoff run Now that was just too **** funny!
--Never saw pearl harbor, but I will say this: Wheel bearing resistance causes a force against the forward motion of the craft. It is so minute that it can be ignored, but I figured I would mention it for accuracy.


Quote:
"Hybrid: That is just being pedantic for the cause of not admitting defeat."

Pedantic ?
We had the same conclusion.
You implied that you believed the craft would have 0 groundspeed, which is not true in this situation.

The crafts taking off from stop (with wind) is pretty cool though.

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:22 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Don't forget that

L=1/2 rho v^2 S CL

so you will need an airspeed to cause a takeoff

If the aircraft accelerated and the tread mill counteraccted the relative position of the aircraft is the same (relative to the observer from far away). But there will be an airflow over the aircraft because the air will stick to the treadmill (due to viscosity effects). Thus at some point there will be enough airflow going over the aircrfat for it to takeoff, which it will do vertically at first and then will proceed forward (in the direction of trust).

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:27 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Quote:
If the aircraft accelerated and the tread mill counteraccted the relative position of the aircraft is the same (relative to the observer from far away). But there will be an airflow over the aircraft because the air will stick to the treadmill (due to viscosity effects). Thus at some point there will be enough airflow going over the aircrfat for it to takeoff, which it will do vertically at first and then will proceed forward (in the direction of trust).
False, the tread mill will never counteract the force of the engines. It will attempt to, but only provide a force against the wheels. Meanwhile, the engines will be providing the groundspeed, because there is no direct corrolation between wheel speed and ground speed.

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Old 11-09-2006, 04:37 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Keane,
No, I simply implied that it's possible to even takeoff with zero groundspeed (as I have done personally in an airplane and the cute video showed). Groundspeed is irrelevant to actual flight.

I believe it was you that decided to use the pedantic phrase "measured agnostic of the conveyor" to say that ground means the ground. That was funny stuff.

Yea, it flies just the same no mater how complicated people try to make the problem.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:46 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Ah, I misunderstood your point. Thanks.

My "agnostic to the conveyor" comment was to point out that in a zero wind situation, ground speed would be the same as without the conveyor.

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Old 11-09-2006, 05:08 PM   #40 (permalink)
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datto dont do riddles

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