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Old 09-03-2006, 12:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Lucas oil or STP or Bardall or Slick 50

These 3 oil additivies have been highly touted and praised when they came on to the market. I remember back in the 70's that every body was useing STP and every body hailed it as the best. Then Bardall came on as an other product but cost more but was supposed to be better. Them in early 90's came slick 50 and that was supposed to be the liquid space technology miricle. Now we have lucas oil stabilizer that is suppose to get oil up to those parts. My question is half cynicial and half would really like to know. I have searched the internet for a comparison testing of these when added to motor oil and what does it really do other than drain your wallet. I am sure each product is better in your car than having an engine full of cheap walmart techron motor oil on a cross country trip. (something I would not want to do) I lways use Mobil 1 in my 96 chev PU and in my wife's 98 chev suburban. For my sons and daughters daily drivers I aways use Castroil 20-50 and change the oil; every 3000 miles. Which brings me back to the question, relative to time mind you, based on normal useage as a daily driver do any of these highly touted products have a technological advantage when compared to useing good motor oils? Or are they just advertising hype? I would like to read a study test comparison if you know where one exists. This might be a good project for some college mechanical engineering department to undertake. Based purely on the viscosity of these products they are akin to running SAE 90 wr diffrential oil in your engine after adding it to your crank case
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Old 09-03-2006, 02:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Ignorance and Marketing Go Hand in Hand...

"cheap walmart techron motor oil"

There is a fine example of my subject line. You obviously have done absolutely no research, and are taking the word of Marketing people on what to put in your engine.

You will pay more for the SAME oil in another "Branded" oil can, therefore becoming one of the hoarde of ignorant sheep who spend money like it's water flowing from a well, and getting nothing more in return other than the status of saying "I use XYZ Oil!"

Wal Mart oil is EXACTLY the same as it's counterpart in the "Specially Marketed Can", comes from the same refinery, and for gawd's sake comes with the SAME LOT AND CODE NUMBERS on the bottles. The ONLY difference is the CONTAINER and the PRICE.

Same for their Antifreeze. You can pay $6+ a gallon for the SAME anti-freeze you get in the Wal-MArt Jug for half the cost.

But you got it all pegged: Wal Mart sells cheap crap, and you won't EVER put that in your car.......

:Rolls Eyes:

As far a oil stabilizers. Why do you need it?

Then again, this is coming form someone who had absolutely no problem with Wal Mart 40wt on his multiple cross-country trips (at high speeds)...

Oil is sold with so much hype it's unreal, the ignorance about what you need is colossal. Oil needs to lubricate and cool the components it contacts, as well as suspend contaminants, and maintain it's properties over the operational range of the given unit it is put into.

If it does that (and any oil that meets the current API specification) will work. Multi-Viscosity is not required, and is an outcropping of CAFE standards and OEM's requirements for low friction when cold to get better gas mileage during the cold-start cycle of the engine's operation.

The Z's need neither Additives to their oil, nor multi-viscosity oils if the FSM maintenance routines are followed.

As long as the oil is to the top end of the engine shortly before you put a load on it, it is fine. For engine longevity, putting a Canton Accu-Sump on the engine, and pre-oiling with it before startup is FAR better than running a multi-vis for cold-pump up to the tope end...

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Old 09-03-2006, 02:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucas oil or STP or Bardall or Slick 50

Tony D That sounds alot like the milk we buy. Its all from the same place with the same lot numbers but different packages. Being the young wip I am I didnt know this to be true on oil as well. I will be looking into that to save some cash. Do you know if its the same for synthetic? The reason I ask is the new saab turbos run to hot and build up alot of sludge with conventional oils and clog the the oil sump then you know what happens. All the research Ive done on the saab I have has to have full synthetic. Dont like the cost of that stuff. I got a good deal on this car. It has a new factory motor in it because the last owners put conventional oil in it 2 times at 5000 mile intervals and clogged the sump and wrecked the motor. After that they took real good care of the new motor. Probably a bad place to talk about saabs but I would love to find some synthetic oil thats not 5$ a quart.
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Old 09-03-2006, 02:47 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ignorance and Marketing Go Hand in Hand...

Not really so. I have read some research reports and the cheap walmart oil I would not use in my cars. I use Mobil 1 and castroil as a preference. I really do not belive that the cheap walmart oil is as good as what I have mentioned. How ever that was not my original question, my question was regarding the properties of STP, Lucas, Bardall, and slick 50 when added to the oil. the walmart oil to me is as a fram filter . I would not use it. I read a comprenhensive study on oil filters with mobil 1, puralator,wix all rating pretty high while fram was most definately very low on the list and was concluded as a poor choice in oil filters the stp and walmart filters were made by the same company and were rated very low also. You get what you pay for. You probably do not use cheap walmart oil in your car and I bet a lot of other folks here don't either....back to my question and try and stay on subject. Is there any comprenhensive study that compares the efficiency and hype of these products lucas, STP, slick 50. I did not say I was useing them. I want to know if I should be useing them as per scientific research by comparison as was the oil filter report was done and you made your own decision based on those finings. I am not trying to knock any body's product, but I am trying to see weather or not their product is actually worthy of use

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Old 09-03-2006, 03:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default the saab story says it all

use cheap oil, you pay for it later. as did the previous owners who were encountering some sludge and ruined an engine. I doubt that absoutley no body would pay $50,000 for a high performance car and then use walmat brand oil. LOL, that would be as ridiculouse as having a $2000 dollar target gun and mounting a walmart $39.95 scope and then trying to win the state rifle championship. It just an't gonna happen. What I am saying here is you have to match product, performance and use all together. I would use Mobil 1 in that saab car as Mobil 1 is synthetic and is designed for the high heat you will encounter. That said, would it be wise to use any type of additaves as I have mentioned in your oil?

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Old 09-03-2006, 03:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Wrongo Mate!

"You probably do not use cheap walmart oil in your car and I bet a lot of other folks here don't either...."

I certainly do, and have a case at any one time of 30wt and 40wt in my lubrication cabinet.

The Wal Mart oil is EXACTLY the same product in another major manufacturer's bottle, so you have to downgrade that MAINSTREAM oil brand as well. Like I said, your statement is based on no research.

WalMart's Antifreeze is current-production PRESTONE. The same stuff in the Yellow Jug. Same plant of manufacture, same run codes on the bottles, same batch numbers on the bottles.

Same as for their oil.

Wal Mart doesn't make a **** thing, they BUY product from other manufacturer's inventories. I'm not revealing the oil manufacturer, but anybody in ther right mind can look at the bottle read the codes, and then interpolate if they take half an hour looking for a matching batch code on another manufacturer's bottle.

Then it's just a matter of some phone calls to friends at refineries to find out if you are correct.

But go ahead, pay $1.54 a quart for oil you can buy for .78.....

That colored bottle is REALLY worth it!

:Rolls Eyes:

Apparently you missed what the purpose of oil is, and why additives are unrequired in passenger cars.

Try this: There have been many studies, and to a one, they all debunk the additive myth in passenger vehicles. They simply don't have the loads required EVER to justify the addition of additives.

Matter of fact, Mobil will VOID your warranty for adding ADULTERANTS to their proprietary additive package.

Same as Oil Filters, Fram exists on MARKETING AND PAST REPUTATION (same as STP), made when standards were lower and competition less intense.

I was responsible for procurement of (on average) over 5000 gallons of petroleum lubricating oil per annum, and when you see the marketing ploys the manufacturer's try, you become very cynical. Then go to a few lubrication seminars and talk with petroleum engineers, as well as consult with people in the business at a non-marketing level, and you quickly realize the standards oils are required to meet today negate adulterants and package boosters when dealing with long-term engine wear.

It's simply cheaper to decrease the change intervals. Plain and simple.

Matter of fact at training this past week, I was sitting in front of a Petroleum Engineer who was discussing these very same subjects with another classmate in regards to our Polyalkylene Glycol Oil/Coolant specified for our machinery, and oils relating to automotive applications. Find a Petro Engineer and ask him this question firsthand, and watch his reaction!

As to your case: no, you don't need them. You are probably overbuying the oil as it is, you don't need synthetic in the L-Engine, especially in a Street Car.

And as far as not knocking anyone's product, that's exactly what you did with your first comment! And I stand by everything I have said in that regard. I realize your statement was made on a generic ignorance of the product, but please don't persist in that stance. The fact you made it is a testament to my subject line: Marketing. You are taken in by it, and are making derragatory statements based on it, without any knowledge in-depth at all.



Post Edited (Sep 3, 12:26pm)
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Old 09-03-2006, 03:33 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Rolls Eyes

"I would use Mobil 1 in that saab car as Mobil 1 is synthetic and is designed for the high heat you will encounter. "

Now you add SPECIFIC situations to your query? TURBO engines will benefit from Synthetic simply becasue of Dino Oil's inability to handle the cookoff after shutdown.

I have the best oil in the world for anti-varnish in a turbine application. It's called Techtro-Gold III, and WILL NOT varnish.

As long as it's used as designed. $1500 per 55 gallon drum. That's $6.18 a quart. Problem is that its not designed for soot entrainment, nor TAN reduction in an ICE.

Oh, and that's wholesale cost, it's a 100% markup to retail, so keep that in mind.

Because it's great in THAT application, does it mean it's great in EVERY application?

So I'll requalify my original statements towards ZXJET: Synthetic is unrequired in an N/A street car. And in all cases, the additives are not required, either.

Nobody said TURBO cars. That is a SPECIFIC application. Now I have given a great example of TURBO oil to be used, and if you were to use it it would CRASH your engine in short order. ESPECIALLY since ZXJET's tagline SPECIFICALLY denotes NON-TURBO my statements thusfar have been dead-spot-on! As for his needling and ignorance regarding his hatred of Wal-Mart, I can't help people who won't take education. That takes the leap from Ignorance to Stupidity. And that's sad. It becomes obvious he's a slavish sheep to current marketing hype and equates price to quality. That's too bad. He simply refuses to understand that the wrapper is not indicative of the manufacturer of the contents.

I bet he would be SHOCKED to find out who makes Wal-Marts' Synthetic engine oil. Boy, would he be suprised!

Use some logic here, guys, apples to apples, not apples to oranges!



Post Edited (Sep 3, 12:37pm)
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What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
-Ecclesiastes 1:9 and that means SEARCH, NOOB!

Canadians don't get it. Period. End of discussion.
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Old 09-03-2006, 03:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default The Saab Story:

"It has a new factory motor in it because the last owners put conventional oil in it 2 times at 5000 mile intervals and clogged the sump and wrecked the motor. "

I will state catagorically that what happened in that engine is heat-induced-polymerization and is peculiar ONLY to SYNTHETIC oils.

It comes when you mix synthetics with incompatible basestocks, or with mineral oil. The problem is not that they used mineral oil, it's that they CHANGED OILS AGAINST MANUFACTURER'S RECOMENDATIONS.

Polymerization can occur when going form Mineral to Synthetic (ask Jeff P about that one, the bottom of his sump was coated with black jelly-like sludge when he did his oil swap!)

This has nothing to do with the cost of the oil, it has to do with the oil chemistry, and NOT following industry recomendations.

Mix ANY mineral based oil and you get mineral oil.

Mix ANY synthetics, and you have a chance of polymerization---the degree of which depends on the temperature and the chains involved. I have seen oil pans in compressors with sludge so hard you could lay a 1/2" breaker bar on it and it wouldn't sink!

That peculiar trait is one of the ADVANTAGES you get when you convert to synthetic!

Then again, what do I know, eh?

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What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.
-Ecclesiastes 1:9 and that means SEARCH, NOOB!

Canadians don't get it. Period. End of discussion.
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Old 09-03-2006, 03:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Lucas oil or STP or Bardall or Slick 50

Tony D, I have a question. I'm converting my80 280zx n/a to turbo, and the engine has over 200,000 miles. I have never used anything but a straight 40 wt oil. As I'm not rebilding my engine at this time should I switch over to a synthetic or wait untill i build the new engine?

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Old 09-03-2006, 04:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rolls Eyes

ok school me who makes it..........., your great at snide remarks but you are so smart you can't come in from the rain........I asked is ther any STUDY REGARDING MY FIRST QUESTION

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